Louis,
Generalizing that most board houses do not update the CAM tools software is
a pretty strong statement and is inconsistent with what I see the industry.
Sounds like CAD vs CAM turf wars.
Dave Roesler
TRI-C Design, Inc.
----------
> From: Louis Dallara <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DC] RS274X format problem
> Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 8:24 PM
>
> The problem is most board houses do not update the Cam tool software
> and do not have the latest release of 274X.
> Lou
>
> Dave Roesler wrote:
>
> > Gerry,
> >
> > I don't think that the RS 274X standard is the issue. This standard
has
> > been around for a long time. Generally, if there is a problem it is
due to
> > the interpretation of the standard by CAD and CAM system developers. I
had
> > a lot of experience with this issue because I ran a software
development
> > group who developed CAM and pre-production analysis software. We also
> > owned a number of service bureaus. Therefore, I saw data from any
number
> > of CAD and CAM systems. As a service bureau we had to be able to read
> > whatever was thrown our way regardless whether it matched the standard
or
> > not. Whenever possible, I would contact individuals who produced
> > "incorrect" data to get them to put pressure on their software vendor
to
> > correct the problem.
> >
> > I have been involved in many meetings with CAD vendors including IPC
> > sponsored events. Generally, the CAD vendors do not put much effort
into
> > output translators because good output is not viewed as a feature that
> > sells more systems. They put their emphasis on routing, placement,
etc.
> > In more than one meeting I was told, point blank, that output did not
get
> > much development effort. As a result, many of the RS 274X outputs from
the
> > CAD systems, though correct per the format spec, are very poor.
> >
> > This leaves the CAM vendor with the responsibility of trying to read
every
> > flavor and interpretation of RS 274X. One of the biggest issues is
> > polygons. CAM systems attempt to police valid polygons. They are
required
> > to do this because they must produce photoplotter output and,
therefore,
> > the polygons must match the requirements of the photoplotter. I would
> > venture to guess that most of the polygons that VALOR CAM says are
illegal
> > would not plot if sent directly to the photoplotter. In this case, the
CAM
> > software must be robust enough to handle the illegal polygons and make
them
> > plottable. It is too bad that the CAM systems must compensate, but
until
> > we can get the CAD vendors to produce good output it is the way it has
to
> > be.
> >
> > Dave Roesler
> > TRI-C Design, Inc.
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Gerald G. Gagnon <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [DC] RS274X format problem
> > > Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 7:20 AM
> > >
> > > Hi All
> > >
> > > The recent posts regarding RS274X have been very timely as I have
seen a
> > > rash of problems with a vendor not being able to read these files
into
> > > their VALOR CAM system due to "illegal polygon fills". I believe this
> > > issue is different than the compositing issues from this thread.
Other
> > > board shops either do not seem to have the problem or have developed
> > > suitable workarounds to keep their jobs going.
> > >
> > > What concerns me most is whether or not this is an RS274X standard
> > > issue, a CAD RS274X translator issue, or a board shop CAM RS274X
issue.
> > >
> > > Any comments?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Gerry Gagnon
> > >
> > > Interconnect Technology
> > > AlphaServers Platform Development
> > > 129 Parker Street
> > > Mail Stop: PKO3-1/20C
> > > Maynard, MA 01754-2198
> > >
> > > ' Phone: (978)493-1210
> > > * Fax: (978)493-0941
> > > * Email: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hawes, Adam [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 1998 3:35 AM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [DC] RS274X format problem
> > >
> > > Dennis,
> > >
> > > You're not alone.......
> > >
> > > Composite layers are when the CAM software uses several layers to
create
> > > one
> > > artwork layer i.e. what exists as one layer in Allegro e.g. your
power
> > > plane
> > > is made up of several layers in the CAM environment. (forgive me if
you
> > > already knew this!)
> > >
> > > The fabricator only has a limited number of layers available to play
> > > with
> > > and we have had a problem with RS274X, especially on boards with
several
> > > PWR/GND layers, where the fabricator has complained of not having
enough
> > > layers to complete all the composites.
> > >
> > > I believe there is a Skill routine on the Cadence Web site that
allows
> > > you
> > > to reduce the number of layers needed for composites. I've never used
it
> > > so
> > > I don't know how reliable it is or if it's any good. Other than that,
> > > the
> > > only thing I can suggest is that you talk to your fabricator.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Adam Hawes
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Dennis Ward [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 12:49 AM
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: [DC] RS274X format problem
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > The fab house I'm using has encountered a problem importing my
RS274X
> > > > artwork.
> > > > I believe their software is having a hard time compositing(?) the
> > > power
> > > > plane layers.
> > > > I'm still unsure what exactly is happening - I plan on visiting
them
> > > > tomorrow and see
> > > > first hand.
> > > >
> > > > My software (output) - Allegro designer - version 13
> > > > Theirs (Input) - Tibor Davos - version unknown.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone else experienced any difficulties with RS274X formatted
> > > power
> > > > and ground planes
> > > > generated from Allegro??
> > > >
> > > > Any (I do mean ANY) help would be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Dennis Ward
> > > > Net to Net Technologies
> > > >
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>
> --
> Lou Dallara PCB Design Engineer
> "Civilization is a limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities" -
> Mark Twain
> http://www.waterwheel.net/~ldallara/
>
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