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December 2001

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Date:
Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:43:13 +0200
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"TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From:
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Dear Keach,
Could you be so kind and disconnect Mr Jong untill he is back from his
vacations???
Edward

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jong s kadesch [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: ב דצמבר 17 2001 16:58
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> Subject:      [TN] Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001
> (#2001-776))
> 
> At 12:00 AM 12/14/01 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>       Date:     Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:00:04 -0600
>       Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>       Sender:   TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>       From:     Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>       Subject:  TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001 (#2001-776)
>       To:       Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
> 
>       There are 8 messages totalling 516 lines in this issue.
> 
>       Topics of the day:
> 
>         1. porosity of gold plating on nickel (2)
>         2. Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA (2)
>         3. .050 PWB (2)
>         4. PCB Density Study/Design Quoting
>         5. photoplotters
> 
> 	
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> additional
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> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> 	
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>       Date:    Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:30:15 -0500
>       From:    "Vandendolder, Ron" <[log in to unmask]>
>       Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
>       MIME-Version: 1.0
>       Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
>       Kris,
> 
>       Although not quantitative, I was impressed with some SEM's (Scanning
>       Electron Microscope)
>       pictures taken of some gold plated Duroid boards that were not
> performing as
>       expected.  The pictures showed globular deposits of gold on the top
> surface.
>       Where the globular deposits didn't
>       touch, nickel was clearly showing.
> 
>       Ron VandenDolder
>       Product Development Group
>       Telaxis Communications
>       SouthDeerfield, MA
>       413-665-8551
> 
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: Kris Keating [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
>       Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:31 PM
>       To: [log in to unmask]
>       Subject: [TN] porosity of gold plating on nickel
> 
> 
>       Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity
> of gold
>       plating over nickel on a PCB?
> 
> 
>       Kristopher J. Keating
>       Technical Service Engineer
>       Circuit-Wise, Inc.
>       400 Sackett Point Rd.
>       North Haven, CT 06473
>       Tel. (203) 281-6511
>       Fax (203) 287-8409
> 
> 	
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>       -----
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> additional
>       information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
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>       ext.5315
> 	
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>       -----
>       Date:    Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0700
>       From:    Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
>       Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
> 
>       Hey Stacy,
> 
>       It sounds as though on paper, your process is OK.  Just to fill you
> in on
>       aspect ratio, that is aperture width/stencil thickness.  This is a
> good rule
>       of thumb for rectangular apertures such as for fine pitch
> components.  For
>       small circular or square apertures most people use the area aspect
> ratio
>       which is aperture area/wall area.  The area aspect ratio should be
> above
>       ..66.  Thus on a .005" thick stencil with a .0135" square aperture
> you are
>       looking at (.0135*.0135)/((.0135*.005)*4) = .675.
>       Actually the area aspect ratio for a .0135" round aperture is the
> same as
>       that for a square aperture, yet release on the square aperture has
> generally
>       been proven to be better (don't forget a .002" or .003" radius on
> the
>       corners).
> 
>       Anyway my point was going to be that I had the exact same apertures
> ordered
>       on one particular project, and the apertures all clogged up (luckily
> we
>       caught them at the visual step).  It seems the apertures were
> severely
>       undersized (more like .0122" x .0122").  So are your apertures
> really
>       ..0135"?
> 
>       As Kathy mentioned, kneed or condition your paste.  The paste may
> take a few
>       prints to fully mix and provide the thixotropic characteristics that
> you
>       want.  We use a dummy board for the first print, and then print our
> first
>       production board.
> 
>       Personally I think you could get away with a .015" aperture if you
> are
>       dealing with a .0315" pitch product.  Even if they undercut your
> stencil,
>       you should be fine.
> 
>       Good luck....
> 
>       Steve A
> 
> 
>       > -----Original Message-----
>       > From: My Nguyen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
>       > Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 11:43 AM
>       > To:   [log in to unmask]
>       > Subject:      [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>       >
>       > Hello all,
>       >
>       > Problem description:
>       >
>       > Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
>       > Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
>       > height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
>       > 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
>       > modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
>       > at all.  As we inspect the screen printing process (we
>       > use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
>       > rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
>       > found un-event solder deposit.  Some pad even has very
>       > little solder or no solder at all.
>       >
>       > Stencil is electro-polish;  Diamond shape aperture,
>       > 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
>       >
>       > We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
>       > we may have bridging or solder ball.  If we reduce the
>       > stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
>       > resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
>       > many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
>       > short-life, etc)
>       >
>       > What would be your solution?
>       >
>       > Thanks,
>       >
>       > Stacy
>       >
>       > __________________________________________________
>       > Do You Yahoo!?
>       > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
>       > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at <http://shopping.yahoo.com/>
>       > or bid at <http://auctions.yahoo.com/>
>       >
>       >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 1.8d
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> text in
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>       > Technet NOMAIL
>       > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases >
>       > E-mail Archives
>       > Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>)
> for
>       > additional
>       > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
>       > ext.5315
>       >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       > -------
>       Date:    Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:49:52 -0800
>       From:    Mark Mazzoli <[log in to unmask]>
>       Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
>       MIME-Version: 1.0
>       Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
>       Hi Kris,
>       Try IPC TM-650 2.3.24.2 Nitric Vapor Test.  That's the easiest one
> I'm
>       aware of.
>       Here's a link: <http://www.ipc.org/html/2.3.24.2.pdf>
> 
>       Mark Mazzoli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       At 02:30 PM 12/13/01 -0500, you wrote:
> 
>               Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining
> porosity of gold
>               plating over nickel on a PCB?
> 
> 
>               Kristopher J. Keating
>               Technical Service Engineer
>               Circuit-Wise, Inc.
>               400 Sackett Point Rd.
>               North Haven, CT 06473
>               Tel. (203) 281-6511
>               Fax (203) 287-8409
> 
> 	
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>               Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
> LISTSERV 1.8d
>               To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with
> following text in
>               the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>               To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
> message: SET
>               Technet NOMAIL
>               Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org
> <http://www.ipc.org/> > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>               E-mail Archives
>               Please visit IPC web site (
> <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>) for additional
>               information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
>               ext.5315
> 	
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       Date:    Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0700
>       From:    Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
>       Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>       MIME-Version: 1.0
>       Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>       Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
>       Hey Stacy,
> 
>       It sounds as though on paper, your process is OK.  Just to fill you
> in on
>       aspect ratio, that is aperture width/stencil thickness.  This is a
> good rule
>       of thumb for rectangular apertures such as for fine pitch
> components.  For
>       small circular or square apertures most people use the area aspect
> ratio
>       which is aperture area/wall area.  The area aspect ratio should be
> above
>       66.  Thus on a .005" thick stencil with a .0135" square aperture you
> are
>       looking at (.0135*.0135)/((.0135*.005)*4) = .675.
>       Actually the area aspect ratio for a .0135" round aperture is the
> same as
>       that for a square aperture, yet release on the square aperture has
> generally
>       been proven to be better (don't forget a .002" or .003" radius on
> the
>       corners).
> 
>       Anyway my point was going to be that I had the exact same apertures
> ordered
>       on one particular project, and the apertures all clogged up (luckily
> we
>       caught them at the visual step).  It seems the apertures were
> severely
>       undersized (more like .0122" x .0122").  So are your apertures
> really
>       0135"?
> 
>       As Kathy mentioned, kneed or condition your paste.  The paste may
> take a few
>       prints to fully mix and provide the thixotropic characteristics that
> you
>       want.  We use a dummy board for the first print, and then print our
> first
>       production board.
> 
>       Personally I think you could get away with a .015" aperture if you
> are
>       dealing with a .0315" pitch product.  Even if they undercut your
> stencil,
>       you should be fine.
> 
>       Good luck....
> 
>       Steve A
> 
> 
>       > -----Original Message-----
>       > From: My Nguyen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
>       > Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 11:43 AM
>       > To:   [log in to unmask]
>       > Subject:      [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>       >
>       > Hello all,
>       >
>       > Problem description:
>       >
>       > Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
>       > Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
>       > height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
>       > 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
>       > modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
>       > at all.  As we inspect the screen printing process (we
>       > use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
>       > rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
>       > found un-event solder deposit.  Some pad even has very
>       > little solder or no solder at all.
>       >
>       > Stencil is electro-polish;  Diamond shape aperture,
>       > 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
>       >
>       > We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
>       > we may have bridging or solder ball.  If we reduce the
>       > stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
>       > resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
>       > many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
>       > short-life, etc)
>       >
>       > What would be your solution?
>       >
>       > Thanks,
>       >
>       > Stacy
>       >
>       > __________________________________________________
>       > Do You Yahoo!?
>       > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
>       > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at <http://shopping.yahoo.com/>
>       > or bid at <http://auctions.yahoo.com/>
>       >
>       >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       > -------
>       > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
>       > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
>       > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>       > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
> message: SET
>       > Technet NOMAIL
>       > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases >
>       > E-mail Archives
>       > Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>)
> for
>       > additional
>       > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
>       > ext.5315
>       >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       > -------
> 
> 	
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>       Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
>       To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
>       the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>       To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
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> On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
>       Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>) for
> additional
>       information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> 	
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>       Date:    Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:10:13 -0500
>       From:    Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
>       Subject: Re: .050 PWB
>       MIME-Version: 1.0
>       Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>       Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
>       Darrel,
>       I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but almost all board shops should
> be able
>       to manufacture you construction with their eyes closed.
>       ----- Original Message -----
>       From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
>       To: <[log in to unmask]>
>       Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:41 PM
>       Subject: [TN] .050 PWB
> 
> 
>       > Technet.....
>       >
>       > PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building an
> .050"
>       > PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.
>       >
>       > Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this within
>       > normal capability from the design and fab perspective??
>       >
>       > DT
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       > --
>       > Darrel Therriault
>       > VP, Mfg. Operations
>       > INCEP Technologies, Inc
>       > (858)547-9925 223
>       > [log in to unmask]
>       >
>       >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       -------
>       > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
>       > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
>       > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>       > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
> message: SET
>       Technet NOMAIL
>       > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases >
>       E-mail Archives
>       > Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>)
> for
>       additional
>       > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
>       ext.5315
>       >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       -------
>       Date:    Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:10:06 -0500
>       From:    Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
>       Subject: Re: .050 PWB
>       MIME-Version: 1.0
>       Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
>       Tony's right unless
>       you do something "unadvisable" such as an unbalanced construction,
> isolated
>       traces without thieving . . .
> 
>       Hans
>       Integrity First  -  Service Before Self  -  Excellence in All We Do
>       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>       Hans M. Hinners
>       Electronics Engineer
>       Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
>       226 Cochran Street
>       Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
> 
>       <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> 
>       Com: (478) 926 - 5224
>       Fax:   (478) 926 - 4911
>       DSN Prefix: 468
> 
> 
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: Tony Steinke [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
>       Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:10 PM
>       To: [log in to unmask]
>       Subject: Re: [TN] .050 PWB
> 
> 
>       Darrel,
>       I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but almost all board shops should
> be able
>       to manufacture you construction with their eyes closed.
>       ----- Original Message -----
>       From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
>       To: <[log in to unmask]>
>       Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:41 PM
>       Subject: [TN] .050 PWB
> 
> 
>       > Technet.....
>       >
>       > PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building an
> .050"
>       > PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.
>       >
>       > Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this within
>       > normal capability from the design and fab perspective??
>       >
>       > DT
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       > --
>       > Darrel Therriault
>       > VP, Mfg. Operations
>       > INCEP Technologies, Inc
>       > (858)547-9925 223
>       > [log in to unmask]
>       >
>       >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       -------
>       > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
>       > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
>       > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>       > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
> message: SET
>       Technet NOMAIL
>       > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases >
>       E-mail Archives
>       > Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>)
> for
>       additional
>       > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
>       ext.5315
>       >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       -------
> 
> 	
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>       -----
>       Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
>       To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
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>       To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
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>       Technet NOMAIL
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> On-Line Resources & Databases >
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>       Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>) for
> additional
>       information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
>       ext.5315
> 	
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>       -----
>       Date:    Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:25:07 -0600
>       From:    Mike Clemente <[log in to unmask]>
>       Subject: PCB Density Study/Design Quoting
>       MIME-Version: 1.0
>       Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
>       Hello everyone,
> 
>       I need to find an accurate PCB density study method and also an
> efficient method of quoting PCB designs.
> 
>       Has anyone used the density study in IPC-2221? Is it accurate for
> Thru-hole and SMT? Are there other methods out there for density study?
> 
>       Also, does anyone have any specifics or know where to obtain
> information on Quoting PCB design from Schematic to Layout, to Manufacture
> and Assembly of PCB?
> 
>       Thanks,
> 
>       Mike Clemente, C.I.D.
>       Sr. PCB Design Specialist
>       dZinit Applied Technologies
>       Tel: 847-545-8170
>       Fax: 847-545-8175
>       Email: [log in to unmask]
>       Date:    Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:27:57 -0800
>       From:    Karla Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
>       Subject: photoplotters
>       MIME-Version: 1.0
>       Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
>       I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate
> any
>       input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
> Crescent
>       30.  I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you
> have any
>       comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
> 
> 
>       Karla Thompson
>       CAM Technician
>       Electronic Controls Design, Inc
>       Tel: (503) 829-9108
>       email: [log in to unmask] 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I will be back on 12/17/01.
> 
> Regards,
> Jong

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