hi,
 
how can you be responsible for the performance of this product if you don't have control over how it is used?  i think you should tell your customer that you will stand behind the requirements that are on the fab drawing.  if you can't do that then you should tell the customer that can't bid on the job.
 
you might recommend that the customer go to laminate suppliers and ask them what material will meet their requirements.
 
phil

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Mazzoli [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:35 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Laminate requirements - Who is responsible for choosing?



I have a question for designers, OEM's and Fab houses regarding material choices.  A customer of ours who builds high-end burn in boards has demanded that we choose and stand behind the laminate used for their boards.  They've experienced field failures (possibly from CAF or perhaps sulfur in the Polyimide system, though neither has been confirmed) and then began specifying other material types that proved even more troublesome.  Instead of looking at obvious design characteristics that may be leading to these failures (like hole to  internal trace distance) they've elected to make us, the fabricator, responsible for choosing the materials and ultimately being responsible for their long-term effectiveness in the field.  As well, they're not willing to pay for any increases a new material may cost.

I've been in this business for 23 years and have assisted many customers in choosing materials.  Assisted is the key word here. No customer up to this point has demanded that I make the laminate choice for them and eat whatever costs are associated with it as well as stand behind the product should it fail in the field (other than for workmanship reasons for which we had control).  Most PCB users want control of the materials they choose.  They order their boards on whatever materials they feel will best suit their needs.  They're the experts at whatever products they build, not us.

I know this business is getting tougher by the moment, but seriously, are other end users approaching PCB fab houses with a similar scenario?  I have big concerns about making the final choice of laminates.  Not only do we not know the exact operating conditions of his product but we have no control over the design.  So even if we see design areas where field failures can occur, we can't make changes.

Where does this end?  Are fab houses now supposed to become expert in all electronic technologies we build PCB's for?  Is it smart for the end user to allow a fab house to choose the material?   

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