Dear Jeffrey,
Dear Technetters,
I would like to share a reply I got from ECT / ATG off line on subject. And
got the OK to do so.
De : Coffman, Craig [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Envoyé : mercredi, 25. mai 2005 01:25
À : [log in to unmask]
Objet : Reply on ATG flying probe testers and IPC-D-356A
Dear Roland,
Thank you for visiting our web site. I will try to answer your questions
concerning ATG flying probe testers and test specifications.
It also surprised me that I was unable to find the 356A or 356B spec at the
IPC.org site. The 356 spec
has been the recognized test standard in the bare board industry for > 20
years. One of my co-workers chaired the committee for 356B,
and I will ask him to look into this matter.
Keep in mind that 356B only adds to the 356A spec. In reality there are no
CAD/CAM vendors who fully support 356B at this time (It will take time,
programming and
economic incentive). Because 356A was approved in 1998, it is now supported
by most CAM vendors (Barco, Valor, IGI, etc). The most popular
PCB CAD design formats (Mentor, PADS, Allegro) can also be converted to
356A.
As to your question of guaranteeing that the PCB fully conforms to the
design, yes this is possible. It requires only that accurate data be given
to
the manufacturer, and that you understand and request the proper type of
test. The majority of PCB manufacturers are capable of comparing a supplied
CAD netlist to the gerber data. Then testing the final PCB to a netlist
generated from that known good Gerber. You should specify this type of
comparison and resolve any discrepancies before proceeding. If you then
specify the proper type of test for the product, there is no chance of error
(other than human). Any reputable manufacturer should be willing to certify
the PCBs they produce as well as their procedures including the pass
ticket from the tester.
The type of test requested is equally important to the quality of product.
Buyers are often not specific about the type of test they need and simply
trust the PCB vendor to give them good product. Your guarantee will come
from requesting the proper test needed including isolation threshold,
continuity thresholds, voltage requirements, etc. If you do not specify, the
vendor will use their "standard parameters" whatever they may be.
Our ATG flying probe testers are capable of testing with whatever parameters
and techniques required. Voltage up to 500V, Continuity down to the
milliohm range, and isolation up to 2GigOhm. Embedded resistors, capacitors,
and inductors may also be tested. You can test every net against all other
nets or just the adjacent (near by) nets. Field Measurement is an ATG
measurement techniques used by most customers to greatly speed up testing.
Our speed (up to 200 points per second) combined with the ability to test
feature down to 1 mil in size, has made ATG the clear leader in flying
probes.
I am not clear on your request for a verifying output from the tester. You
can print pass/fail tickets with every test and there is also a function to
log
every measurement for every test in a file. I am not sure what other items
you might want. Most PCB shops also provide a certification of their test if
requested.
I hope this information is helpful. If you have further questions or
specific test problems we can help with, please let us know.
Regards,
Craig Coffman
Sr. Product Support Engineer
Everett Charles Technologies
Office (909) 447-2633
Cell (951) 741-2633
e-mail [log in to unmask]
For fastest support contact
[log in to unmask]
Very Best regards
Rol@nd
www.PCBspecialist.com
T +41-22-880-0405 F +41-22-880-0409 Mob +41-79-203-3723
-----Message d'origine-----
De : TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] De la part de Jeffrey Bush
Envoyé : mardi, 24. mai 2005 19:38
À : [log in to unmask]
Objet : Re: [TN] IPC-D-356 A/B
The main verification from design should be a CAD net that is compared to
the net derived from the data sent to fabricate the boards. Once the
derived net is known to be good, this should be the net used to further
compare the data after DRC/DFM and also for electrical verification. Flying
probe will also verify boards similar to bed of nails is the program is
developed correctly from the derived net.
ODB++ has a net as part of the data container - we can extract a netlist at
any part of the process and this is stored in the ODB++ container and can be
referenced at anytime. This is one advantage of ODB++ - Downstream has a
CAM350 product that can read both Gerber and ODB++, among other formats.
Jeffrey Bush
Director, Quality Assurance and Technical Support
VERMONT CIRCUITS INCORPORATED
76 Technology Drive - POB 1890
Brattleboro, Vermont 05302
Voice: 802.257.4571.21 Fax: 802.257.0011
http://www.vtcircuits.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Jaquet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] IPC-D-356 A/B
Dear Technetters,
I am back with an old problem ..
"Are the produced PCB's identical to my Design?"
If I send the D-356 file to the PCB Manufacturer, what does prove me it is
matching the production AND the Electrical Test ????
Further more, if tested with a Flying Probes Tester ?
They test proximity nets, and eventually more, but never all against one and
each one.. What is the reliability confidence in this case?
Once the D-356 sent.. who care ? Which feedback do we have??
So is there any practiced way of controlling 100% matching?
Is someone asking for it?
1 - Could the CAM generated netlists be sent to the Designer and compared to
D-356 ?
2 - Can the CAM output a printed list describing the number of each net
length ?
3 - Can the D-356 generate a printed list describing the number of each net
length ?
4 - Can the Flying Probes machine (ManiaBarco, ECT / ATG, ...) Generate the
number of each net length ?
5 - Is there a software capable to compare each one and show the
differences?
6 - I remember our Mania Bed of nails, E.T. was capable to print the netlist
he was testing. Which depends of the effectively used bed of nails.. which
should correspond to the CAM and Design as well.. but for some reason we do
not even know if all the nails are in place to run the test..
7 - How all the above is handled in ODB++ Up + Down stream??
I would be pleased if someone could tell me how they proceed when they need
100% reliability from Design to Assy.. In case where we are manufacturing in
IPC Class 3, IPC-60xx, IPC-32xxx...
Thank you
Very Best regards
Rol@nd
www.PCBspecialist.com
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