As I read the previous messages in the thread, my mind was flashing,
"Basel Convention" and I'm glad you brought this up. Strictly speaking,
any electronics soldered with tin/lead or containing any one of a number
of other hazardous substances must be considered as hazardous waste
within the meaning of the Convention. If this were applied to the
letter, end-of-life electronics should not normally cross frontiers. I
would add a rider that this would be doubly the case if flux residues
remain on the assemblies, as these will contain heavy metal salts.

Brian

Robin Ingenthron wrote:
> Bev,
>
> BAN is based in Seattle, not yet part of California.  You may be
> thinking of another group, SVTC, which sometime shows the BAN video.
>
> We have a lot of dialogue with them, both concerning the Basel
> Convention Treaty (which was set up to deal with waste disposal, not
> recycling) and EPA rules.  I've also been to Guangdong province where
> the film was made and seen a wide variety of recycling there.
>
> I could film some restaurants in China and depict something so unhealthy
> you might want to ban the exportation of food to those restaurants.  But
> in fairness, other restaurants were the best ever.  Such is the case
> with recycling there.
>
> Anyway, the comment I have on your message is that, as a recycler, we
> send some material to China which they want and excel at recycling(e.g.
> repairable monitors, copper). Other material we don't send to China
> (broken CRTs) because the BAN video is accurate.  My point is that China
> does not WANT broken CRTs, and goes to great lengths to avoid importing
> them.  However the temptation is there for me and my competitors to say,
> "Hey, you want 500 good repairable monitors?  Well, to get them you got
> to take the 500 busted CRTs as well."  It's "Toxics Along for the Ride",
> and it is indeed the fault and responsibility of USA/European recyclers
> who want to avoid the high cost of processing the bad tubes, and it does
> indeed wind up on the banks of the river in Guiyu.
>
> The BAN solution to ban exports is akin to banning medicine or banning
> food because it's being misused.  If China doesn't recycle they wind up
> mining, which is far worse than the worst recycling.  However we know
> perfectly well what we are putting on our containers.  We have a $3000
> per week recycling bill for the bad TVs and monitors China doesn't want.
> It would be pretty easy for me to cut that in half by mixing the duds in
> with the good exports.
>
> Robin Ingenthron
> www.retroworks.com
> www.good-point.net
> 802-382-8500
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 5:51 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [LF] Lead, vinegar and garbage (yum)
>
> Gordon,
> The TCLP is not unrepresentative of the conditions right beside a
> rotting tomato, but it certainly is unrepresentative once you (or the
> lead  :)  ) are/is a few centimeters away.  The problem occurs when
> people take the results for the EPA test and think that is what would be
> leaving the actual landfill.  As I, you, Brian Ellis and many others
> have shown, this is chemically not the case.
>
> New topic to stir the pot.  :)
> I think earlier someone had a few disparaging words to say about BAN.
> For those of you that don't know, they are a ground roots eco group in
> California. They have produced a sensationalist, but gripping
> documentary about waste electronics taken to China for "recycling".  The
> images are horrifying for anyone, but especially for a chemist - open
> burning of PVC coated cables to recover the copper, broken CRT tubes
> dumped in the open, a man with no more extra protection than rubber
> boots pouring aqua regia over printed circuit boards and circuit packs
> to recover the gold.  Certainly the entire landscape of China has not
> been decimated, but around the five or six villages in the area where
> this is going on things are pretty bad.  I do not believe we can lay all
> the blame at the feet of the big, bad West full of consumers and not all
> the blame can be laid at the feet of the Chinese - there is enough for
> both!
>
> I am sure that most people do not know that a large proportion (and we
> can argue about percentages) of electronic stuff they honestly think is
> being recycled ends up in little villages as I describe above.  So
> certainly we cannot lay the blame here on the individual consumer.  If
> you want to talk about consumption itself, well that is another chapter.
> Certainly some blame can be given to Canada, the US and Europe as
> political entities that are breaking their own treaties by sending this
> stuff out of their individual countries.  Expediency and greed are alive
> and well.
>
> But certainly this is not foisted on the Chinese, they want this stuff.
> And it is they that chose to treat the material in such a cavalier
> fashion.  China is not some dirt poor African nation taking low level
> radioactive waste for cash because they are absolutely desperate. We are
> talking about one of the oldest civilizations in the world; with a
> revived, fast growing economy; a country with many well-trained
> scientists and engineers.  Again greed is alive and well there too.
>
> So personally I thank BAN for making the film, even if it uses scare
> tactics.  I will certainly be asking my regional authorities how they
> plan to deal with electronic waste.  And I think the Chinese authorities
> need to wake up and think of the long term consequences and not just
> about the next buck.
>
> Let the games begin.
>
> Opinions are my own, not those of my employer, etc., etc.
>
> And, Brian, this is about lead and I don't have time to subscribe to too
> many bulletin boards, so I have posted it here and not on your enviro
> site.  We can discuss it until Jack tells us to stop.  :)
>
> Bev Christian
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
> information, privileged material (including material protected by the
> solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
> non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than
> the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
> transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete
> this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or
> reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not
> authorized and may be unlawful.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
> in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
> To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks
> send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)
> Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site
> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100
> ext.2815
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
> To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)
> Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------