So tell me George, You'd like to be a terrorist too? 


Andy K.
Sychip Inc
Office +61 2 9456 7984

-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
George Patrick
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 6:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Warning... when attending events

FWIW, the MAC address on the NIC hardware is the only unique identifier
as
most laptops are set up with DHCP, and the IP address is set
dynamically.
The MAC address is not foolproof, either, since most wireless routers
used
with cable and DSL modems allow manual entry of a MAC address so the ISP
server only sees one computer attached, no matter how many are actually
attached to the router.

I know we'd all like our stolen notebooks back, but I think a few
thieves
immolated by a thermite charge would go a LOOOOONNNNGGG  way towards
stopping the theft of notebooks in this country, especially with the way
the
media would be wringing their hands and wailing about it <:o)

--
George Patrick
Tektronix, Inc.
Central Engineering, PCB Design Group
P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512
Beaverton, OR 97077-0001
Phone: 503-627-5272         Fax: 503-627-5587
http://www.tektronix.com    http://www.pcb-designer.com

It's my opinion, not Tektronix'



-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of JaMi
Smith
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 12:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Warning... when attending events


Actually, 98% of what's needed to trace a system is already present in
not
only the
laptop, but almost any computer.

It's called an Ethernet connection or port, and it has a unique hardware
address. I
am not sure, but I think that this is called your IP address, and in
addition, I
believe that there is also a MAC address.

This hardware address is used anytime that anything is sent thru this
port
over any
network of any kind, including the internet.

This is what the Laptop Recovery people are using. Every time you boot
your
machine
(or at other specified time periods) a little program is executed, and
it
calls home
with a little "packet" to Laptop Recovery, thru that port, which has
it's
unique
address, and every step along the way, other unique addresses are added
to
the
"routing" of the little "packet", all of which information is saved for
a
specified
period of time, so that when you call Laptop Recovery and report your
laptop
or
other computer stolen, then they just look at the "routing" information
of
the
latest "packets" sent in from your laptop, and trace the route the
"packet"
took to
get there all the way back to the Internet Provider your laptop was
connected to,
and thru them they can get the actual phone line or other connection
that
your
laptop was actually connected to, which they give to the police, etc.,.
etc., etc..

The obvious problem with this approach, is that the Laptop Recovery or
other
similar
programs can probably be easily detected and disabled by any smart
thief,
and will
almost certainly be deleted by any formatting of the hard drive,
especially
if the
disk partitions are cleaned out and re-partitioned.

The other thing to consider, is that your Laptop, if it's hard drive is
not
completely wiped and a new bootlegged OS installed, is probably going to
go
the same
route that most cars do that get stolen, which is that they will either
go
immediately out of the country (not very far from Lake San Marcos (Exam
Site) to the
Mexican Border, where nobody cares if it was stolen, and where US Law
Enforcement
can't reach), or it will go the way of the "chop shop", where just like
a
stolen
car, your Laptop will be stripped for parts and either show up on "ebay"
as
an
auction for a keyboard and a battery etc. (which can't be traced), or
sold
to
refurbishes and repair shops, just the way stolen car parts are.

The real problem here, is that the solution to the problem needs to come
in
the form
of legislation, or as voluntarily implemented program, where an IP
Provider
would
voluntarily or as required by law, check your hardware address or MAC
address
against a "hot sheet" every time you logged in, and immediately report
it
and the
"access location" to the local police or FBI if there was a "match".

The truth be told, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if such a program
already
exists as
a part of "Echelon" or "Homeland Security", that is used to track
"terrorist" (and
other subversive democrats), but which would never be used or revealed
for
such a
minor inconvenience as the loss of your laptop (since it would expose
the
existance
of the program), unless of course you were a "terrorist" (or subversive
democrat).

Anyway, enough for that subject, except to say that the Laptop Recovery
is
only as
good as the installed software base on your hard drive is, since once
reformatted or
otherwise detected and disabled, it will no longer call home.

As to the software approach, probably one of the simplest approaches
would
be to
write a little program that would load at boot up, and if not disabled
by
the
execution of another program (possibly requiring a separate password),
would
wait 30
minutes (so that it wouldn't be immediately detected and the hard drive
reformatted)
and then by software turn up the volume of the internal sound card full
blast, and
start screaming something like "Call the Police, this Laptop is Stolen"
from
an
embedded MP3 file, and make other car alarm type sounds.

A really good approach to this, would also take into account the
software
power
disabling capabilities, such as "Suspend Mode" and other things such as
an
executable program that would continue to scream every time your laptop
booted up,
or went into "Suspend Mode" rather than powering off, so that it would
scream again
in something like 1 or 2 minutes, even though the "lid" was closed, as
the
thief
though he or she was safely retreating.

Then of course there is the "embedded exploding purple die pack" for
your
laptop,
like the banks use for stolen money.

If the truth be told, and if there wasn't the chance that we ourselves
might
forget
and be caught off guard, there is also the trick of embedding a small
brick
of C3
into your laptop so that the thief would get his.

Getting back to the issue of your laptop calling home, another sneaky
little
trick
would be to embed a program that would literally email home yourself
once a
week,
using an "alternate email address", one that you would not have to
change,
and one
that you could set up on your ISP email account in addition to your
regular
email,
so that when your laptop was stolen, it would wait for the first ISP
connection that
was made after every one week time interval, and write you an email home
with at
your alternate email address with a new copy of your address book, so
that
you would
not only have the "routing" of the email, but also any new additions to
your
address
book, made by the thief, so that you can turn all of his friends and
aquaintances
in, or send them an email threatening to expose them everyday until they
"give him
up".

This could be very easily done on the order of how many viruses work
today,
in that
it could cause your "outbox" to add a "footer" to every email that
notified
the
recipient that the email was generated on a stolen laptop, and to call
you
for a
reward, or better yet just "explode" like a regular virus and send
everyone
in the
address book a message that says this laptop has been stolen from you,
please notify
you and then call the police and identify the sender. Just make sure
that
your
"alternate" email address is in the address book.

Back tio the Exam site, I suggested to Bill and Mary on the following
day
that we
should put another laptop out under similar conditions and appear to all
go
to lunch
again whilst someone hid in the room to catch the thief if he came back
for
the new
bait, but they didn't think that would work.

Realistically, this is a problem that really could be solved, especially
by
the
laptop manufacturers, but the truth is that on the one hand nobody wants
the
invasion of privacy that would be involved, notwithstanding that
invasion of
privacy
is probably currently going on right now already, and on the other hand,
they really
would rather sell you a new laptop anyway.

Oh well, life is to short for the hassle and high blood pressure brought
about by
even thinking about the things that we all have had stolen from us by
the
scum of
the earth.

Maybe the actual course to really resolving this issue would be a brick
of
C3 hidden
in the stolen laptop that could be remotely detonated by an email sent
out
to the IP
or MAC address after it was stolen, by some service like Laptop
Recovery.

I wonder how many times this email will be "tagged" by "Echelon" or some
other
"Homeland Security" monitoring system.

JaMi

* * * * * * * * * *

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [DC] Warning... when attending events


> Great idea Dee!
>
> If someone picked it up and moved it could have a screen pop up that
> indicated the Alarm system was activated... start screaming a siren
noise
> and dial your cell phone to notify you... then transmit its location
so it
> can be tracked. If the Lap top had a 'cell phone' type video camera
built
in
> you might even get a shot of the perpetrator!
>
> I like it...:)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
> PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
> Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
> http://www.dtwc.com
> http://pcbwizards.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dee Stover [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:03 AM
> To: (Designers Council Forum); Brooks,Bill
> Subject: Re: [DC] Warning... when attending events
>
> A motion sensor - transmitter / receiver so the you have an idea when
the
> laptop first gets on the move. Alarm goes off and tracking starts.
That
> way you can get on the move to find it as soon as the alarm goes off.
>
> At 09:46 AM 10/19/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >Thanks George,
> >
> >  The theft of Laptop computers seems to be more common than I
suspected...
> >This could be an opportunity for a EE, a programmer and a PCB
designer to
> >come up with an add on product that would protect or at least help
recover
> >your laptop in the event someone tired to steal it.
> >
> >  I like the idea of some sort of 'LoJack' tracker built into a
Laptop...
> >I was discussing the subject with a friend of mine... One idea was
some
> sort
> >of a virus-like program that occasionally pops up and asks for an ID
and
if
> >it's not forthcoming, the first time it's connected to the Internet
it
> sends
> >e-mails out to the authorities with your Laptop's GPS location...
> >
> >  Another idea was some sort of radio beacon that can be tracked with
the
> >right equipment, but that might be rather expensive, how about say
> something
> >built into your cell phone for example... With text based cell phones
it
> >could give you direction finding information... right over your
phone...
> >that might make the chase more possible... and immediate. (you can't
run
or
> >hide... we will find you).
> >
> >  I don't know if there is anything like this out there, but it
sounds
like
> a
> >great product enhancement... Laptops cost as much as Cars used to...
in
the
> >1970's anyway, and they are expensive enough that they qualify as
'Felony
> >Grand theft' larceny.
> >
> >Maybe if there is someone out there that wants to work on a project
like
> >this we could get together and create a product and sell it to the
Laptop
> >manufacturers.
> >
> >GPS receivers are very small now and easy to add into the Laptop
> geometry...
> >
> >It could work.
> >
> >Thanks for the kind words, George... I could find great satisfaction
in
the
> >'thermite charge' idea.. but I want my Laptop back... :(
> >
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >
> >Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
> >PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
> >Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
> >http://www.dtwc.com
> >http://pcbwizards.com
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: George Patrick [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 11:09 AM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: [DC] Warning... when attending events
> >
> >What a drag...
> >
> >It is an absolute hassle to lug everything around with you when you
leave
> >the room, but with the way things are now it's the only way to keep
things
> >like this from happening.
> >
> >Too bad they don't put thermite charges in notebooks that are set off
by
> >cell phone (or LoJack trackers, but that's less fun to think about)
;D
> >
> >--
> >George Patrick
> >Tektronix, Inc.
> >Central Engineering, PCB Design Group
> >P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512
> >Beaverton, OR 97077-0001
> >Phone: 503-627-5272         Fax: 503-627-5587
> >http://www.tektronix.com    http://www.pcb-designer.com
> >
> >It's my opinion, not Tektronix'
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> >Brooks,Bill
> >Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 10:52
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: [DC] Warning... when attending events
> >
> >
> >Designers,
> >
> >I know some of you use laptop computers in your work as I do, and I
just
> >want to share this experience with you so you do not have to
experience
> what
> >happened to me and Mary Sugden last weekend...
> >
> >Mary was leading the CID+ Workshop and exam in San Marcos California,
and
I
> >was attending it along with some other fine designers. We broke for
lunch
> >and were gone from the room for a very short time... only to return
to
the
> >room to find that someone of low scruples decided that our laptop
computers
> >would make a great addition to their personal collections... Mary had
to
> >continue the workshop and test from her hand written notes... it was
a
very
> >difficult experience. Mary was a real trouper and still did an
excellent
> job
> >of covering the material and we went on to take the exam on Saturday.
> >
> >The most painful realization occurs when you recall that you left
your
> >checkbook(s), and your personal information in your carrying case,
and
they
> >now know where you live, what your home phone number and work number
is,
> >what your bank account numbers are, e-mail, stocks, you name it...
etc...
> >etc.. Not to mention the data that you have on your hard drive, that
you
> >have not backed up... Laptops are terribly portable... it takes only
30
> >seconds for someone to pass by and grab them and stash them for later
> >retrieval. We looked high and low and searched the entire area for
the
> >thief(s)... and they had vanished.
> >
> >Mailing lists, passwords, lost reference information, jobs you may
have
> been
> >working on, etc... this can be a very sickening experience...
> >
> >The laptops can be expensive, mine was over 2,700 dollars (a Dell
Inspiron
> >8200 with 64MB DDR ram, 40G hd, leather case, high end video, extra
> >batteries... ugh...)and they are targets of thieves, who seem to
watch
and
> >wait for you to make a mistake or get careless for an instant, even
when
> you
> >think your stuff is safe in the confines of a classroom
environment...
> don't
> >let your equipment out of your sight... And think about what you have
on
> >your computer... and what it would mean if someone managed to walk
away
> with
> >it.
> >
> >Please don't let this happen to you...
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >
> >Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
> >PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
> >Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
> >http://www.dtwc.com
> >http://pcbwizards.com
> >
>
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