But Bill, I agree with your assessment. I think we would have been better
off with a board re-spin. And I also agree, dead bugs "should" only be for
prototypes and development. Part of the problem with this board was it was
first brought into production in 1997. Since that time we here at GD have
taken great strides to institute a better DFM process. Now if this was
designed for prototype phase, we would push for, and get in almost all
cases, a redesign to remove not only dead bugs but any cuts and jumps that
also might be needed to make the first boards work. Like you said though,
you have to work slowly to bring the military into new technology. I still
get asked every time a board is going through design if we can install
different parts such as BGA's. I'm bringing them along but sometimes it's
a slow process.
Bruce Stilmack
GDLS-TO Manufacturing Engineer
(850) 574-4773
[log in to unmask]
"Kasprzak,
Bill (sys) To: [log in to unmask]
USX" cc:
<bkasprzak@MOO Subject: Re: [TN] Dead Bugs
G.COM>
Sent by:
TechNet
<[log in to unmask]
RG>
06/19/2004
08:17 AM
Please respond
to "TechNet
E-Mail
Forum.";
Please respond
to "Kasprzak,
Bill (sys)
USX"
Bruce,
I'm very familiar with the various reasons why your board was never
upgraded. (In the military business, it's typically, ".... because we
qualified the system with the 'dead bug'.")
I'll still contend that a board redesign and a delta qual would still be
cheaper than installing the 'dead bug' 800 times and counting.
Tell me you're not attaching wires to the resistor pak. This is nuts.
'Dead Bugs' should only be intended for development, prototypes and small
production orders (<50 pcs).
Bill Kasprzak
Moog Inc., Systems Group, Process Engineer
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 6:38 AM
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX
Subject: Re: [TN] Dead Bugs
We have been installing one dead bug SMT resistor pak on one of the main
electronic control boxes for the M1A1 SEP tanks since the beginning of the
production cycle. In this case a change was needed to make the board
functional, yet no one was willing to spring for an entire board layout.
This card and the box it goes into has passed all levels of military qual
testing including ballistic shock, vibe and all environmental scenarios
(these occur every 100 units). In addition, I have yet to see a card
returned from the field (whether it be the US or Iraq) where this part has
been called into question. We have built a total of about 800 of these
cards and are continuing to outfit the M!A1 with this box (card). So the
reliability factor, if installed correctly, is a none issue. That being
said, myself and well as the assemblers hate the fact that we have to
install the part in this fashion. So good reliability can easily be
achieved, but a price is definitely paid in assembly time.
Bruce Stilmack
GDLS-TO Manufacturing Engineer
(850) 574-4773
[log in to unmask]
"Kasprzak,
Bill (sys) To: [log in to unmask]
USX" cc:
<bkasprzak@MOO Subject: Re: [TN] Dead Bugs
G.COM>
Sent by:
TechNet
<[log in to unmask]
RG>
06/18/2004
11:05 AM
Please respond
to "TechNet
E-Mail
Forum.";
Please respond
to "Kasprzak,
Bill (sys)
USX"
Joe,
A couple of obvious things.
1) If you have a customer that wants to disallow this for production, then
he's willing to foot the bill for new board layouts. That's good.
2) If it's on the print, that takes precedence over any general rules or
other edicts. Whether allowed or not, you're obligated to make the parts to
print.
If "dead bugs" are part of "Production", gosh, I hope the order is very
small. "Dead Bugs" should be limited to development maybe even prototype
work. Otherwise, new board layout is needed.
You might want to know why they're suggesting this? I'd be curious.
Good Luck.
Bill Kasprzak
Moog Inc., Systems Group, Process Engineer
-----Original Message-----
From: Kane, Joseph E [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 10:27 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Dead Bugs
We've talked before about implementing design changes with "dead
bug" components, where you turn the part upside down, bond
it to the board surface, and solder wires to the pins.
Of course, this takes more labor, but sometimes it's useful to
implement a change for a short time while artwork is being updated.
Now we have a customer talking about disallowing this practice for
production. Anyone have a good reason why dead bugs should be
outlawed? Are there any specs that prohibit this?
Joe Kane
BAE SYSTEMS Controls
Johnson City, NY
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