At 12:00 AM 12/12/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:00:05 -0600
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>
>There are 17 messages totalling 808 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA (2)
> 2. Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations? (2)
> 3. GEE Laminate Material?
> 4. Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit (3)
> 5. unsubscribe TechNet Jeff Slipp
> 6. Sodium Silicate Contamination
> 7. Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
> 8. RF shielding
> 9. Where did 30m" for Tab plating co
> 10. Interesting trend lately... (4)
>
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>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:43:03 -0800
>From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Hello all,
>
>Problem description:
>
>Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
>Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
>height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
>5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
>modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
>at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we
>use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
>rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
>found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very
>little solder or no solder at all.
>
>Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
>13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
>
>We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
>we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the
>stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
>resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
>many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
>short-life, etc)
>
>What would be your solution?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Stacy
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
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>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:46:05 -0800
>From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Rick,
>
>Please specify your application. The pro/con of those
>machine depend on your application, expectation
>(volume, quantily, maintenance, service, ...).
>
>Clarify your need, then we will be able to share
>ideas.
>
>Stacy
>
>--- Rick Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
> > We're looking at possibly installing a new line and
> > I'm hoping some of
> > you might care to share your opinions,
> > recommendations, pro or con on
> > Panasonic, Siemens, Fuji from current users. If you
> > have any insight
> > you wouldn't mind sharing, please contact me
> > offline.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> > Rick Thompson
> > Ventura Electronics Assembly
> > 2655 Park Center Dr.
> > Simi Valley, CA 93065
> >
> > +1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice
> > +1 (805) 584-1529 fax
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
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> > Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
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> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at
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> >
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>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
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>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:04:31 -0600
>From: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>we have a .75 mm pitch device with same issue, try pad size at .014" and
>square
>appature .014" . also experiment with differant paste types 3 or 4
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:18:48 -0500
>From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Opps,
>
>I tried looking up Bernard's 18911 spec but no go.
>Turns out Keith's' had the right spec and I'm all set.
>
>
>Hans
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Keith Calhoun [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:33 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
>
>
>Hans,
>Try MIL-I-24768/2. We use this for insulating spacers, etc.
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:21:24 -0800
>From: Yu-Hung Shiau <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>boundary="=====================_942141297==_.ALT"
>
>Morning guys,
>Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to get a
>number about the normal allowed insertion times on the gold plating edge
>connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about how many insertion
>times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could take before it
>malfunctions? We have 30 micron" gold through electroplating process over
>100 micron" Nickle on all edge connectors in our products.
>
>If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could find
>relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!
>YH Shiau
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:30:12 -0400
>From: Jeff Slipp <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: unsubscribe TechNet Jeff Slipp
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:48:17 -0600
>From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1827C.C730BC20"
>I got the following info from the SMTNet site a few months ago. Thanks to
>Dave F, who also posts to Technet. I believe in your dimensions you mean
>micro-inches, not microns. So, according to Norm's experiment, looks like
>you could have 50-75 insertions. "...an experiment done by Norm Einarson.
>[Mr. Einarson is a very famous board design guru. His book "Bare Board PBW
>Design Manual" published by Printed Circuit Technology ph.617-272-0938 is
>a very good approach to board design for manufacture. You may be able to
>buy it from SMTA <http://www.smta.org> also.]
>
>The experiment was to determine insertions from a gold plated board into a
>connector. Same thickness boards (0.062"), with 100 m base nickel. " 100m
>gold => 500 insertions " 50 m gold => 300 insertions " 30 m gold => 50 to
>75 insertions " 20 m gold => 10 insertions. "
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Yu-Hung Shiau [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: December 11, 2001 1:21 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
>>
>>Morning guys,
>>Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to get a
>>number about the normal allowed insertion times on the gold plating edge
>>connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about how many insertion
>>times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could take before it
>>malfunctions? We have 30 micron" gold through electroplating process over
>>100 micron" Nickle on all edge connectors in our products.
>>
>>If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could find
>>relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!
>>YH Shiau
>>
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:20:33 EST
>>From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>Jennifer:
>>
>>You probably did not discover Sodium Silcate...which, in small particles and
>>quantities is rapidly neutralized by the Carbon Dioxide in air to a form of
>>Hydrated Silicon Dioxide.....which is actually known as "Silicic Acid", but
>>is about as acidic as Carbon Dioxide in air..
>>
>>The truth is that the stuff in small quantities is essentially harmless to
>>human beings. I would ignore it.
>>
>>If you want to clean it up, probably the only reasonable way is to use a
>>simple mild detergent solution. If you want to remove every last atom of
>>Silicon Dioxide you would have to use some VERY hazardous chemicals.
>>
>>My advice: Have a nice holiday...if people want to feel like they have "done
>>something to cure the problem"...wash the floor.
>>
>>Rudy Sedlak
>>RD Chemical Company
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:53:28 -0800
>>From: Alan de Schweinitz <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011C_01C18242.D4524B60"
>>
>>Hello Yu-Hung,
>>
>>AMP Inc. has published many excellent reference papers regarding the use
>>of gold on connectors. technicalpapers.e-insite.net has published many
>>of these papers.
>>
>>See the link:
>>
>><http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/rlist?iStart=1&sort_by=org_name&
>>t=pd_10_40_40_6&orgtypegrp=ALL>http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/rl
>>ist?iStart=1&sort_by=org_name&t=pd_10_40_40_6&orgtypegrp=ALL and select
>>an AMP Inc.
>>paper
>><http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/detail?id=951410475_424&type=RES
>>&x=1235484440>http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/detail?id=951410475
>>_424&type=RES&x=1235484440 for specific information about the use of
>>gold on connector contacts.
>>
>>Another excellent reference is:
>>
>>Morton Antler, Contact Consultants, Inc., Columbus, Ohio provides the
>>following information in, Tribology of Electronic Connectors: Contact
>>Sliding Wear, Fretting, and Lubrication, Chapter 6 in the volume,
>>Electrical Contacts, Principle and Applications, Paul G. Slade, editor,
>>Marcel Dekker, Inc, 1999.
>>
>>Also, I believe that the thicknesses that you are referencing should be
>>30 microinches (not microns) of hard gold over 100 microinches of nickel.
>>
>>You will find that this subject of gold on gold contacts is very
>>interesting and many different factors enter into being able to predict
>>the life of the connector including the details of the plating process
>>for both the nickel and gold; and the specific design of the mating connector.
>>
>>Best regards and good luck,
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>Alan deSchweinitz
>>Director Communication Products
>>Digitan Systems Inc
>>3445 Kifer Road
>>Santa Clara, CA 95051
>>(408) 992-0280 x224
>>(408) 992-0284 fax
>>email: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>Yu-Hung Shiau
>>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:21 AM
>>Subject: [TN] Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
>>
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:08:12 -0600
>>From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>Hi Peter! Steve Sauer did a great job of covering the most important basics
>>so I'll just add few other details. Based on many of the discussions which
>>occur within the JSTD-002A committee, you should expect that your component
>>shelf life should be a minimum of 6 months and very typically 12 months
>>from date of fabrication. You can expect that components with
>>Sn63/Sn62/Sn60 finishes retain their solderability better than Sn85 or
>>Sn100 finish. There is also one general rule - the thicker a finish the
>>better it retains its solderability. A 20 microinch thick Sn63 finish on a
>>DIP component is going to "age" less gracefully than a 60 microinch thick
>>Sn63 finish on the same component. Humidity has the greatest impact on the
>>loss of solderability so if you can control the humidity in your component
>>storage area then you will be better off (most people have typical controls
>>of 30%-60% RH). Lastly, always relate your solderability expectations with
>>the type of flux chemistry you are using in assembly. Typically, the
>>JSTD-004 type M or H fluxes are more robust to solderability variations
>>than the type L fluxes. The JSTD-002A specification, in conjunction with a
>>good logistics plan (as Steve recommended), can serve as a good tool for
>>solderability management. Good Luck.
>>
>>Dave Hillman
>>Rockwell Collins
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/11/2001 02:12:15 AM
>>
>>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>cc:
>>
>>Subject: [TN] Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
>>
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD
>>components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?
>>
>>Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper
>>storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as
>>nitrogen storage chamber)?
>>
>>How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,
>>expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of component
>>leads?
>>
>>
>>Rgds,
>>Peter
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:25:02 -0800
>>From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: RF shielding
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>Try here:
>>http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SCRM
>>1
>>
>>Dave Fish
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Genny Gibbard" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:11 PM
>>Subject: [TN] RF shielding
>>
>>
>> > Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket
>>idea
>> > (ie. go to Home Depot for the supplies and build ourselves) than booking
>>in
>> > some special consultant to solve our needs.
>> > We have test benches backing onto each other in several places on our
>> > production floor. Several of our products are based on similar frequency
>> > plans (mostly <2GHz) so sometimes tests being run on one bench will
>> > interfere with tests being run on the bench backing onto it and will cause
>> > false test failures.
>> > I am looking for some sort of RF screen or something that we can mount and
>> > ground between the benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.
>> > Thoughts?
>> >
>> > Genny Gibbard (mailto:[log in to unmask])
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------
>> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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>> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>Technet NOMAIL
>> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>>E-mail Archives
>> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>>additional
>> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>ext.5315
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------
>> >
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:03:34 -0600
>>From: Yu-Hung Shiau <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Where did 30m" for Tab plating co
>>
>>Dear Norm,
>>I saw the article you posted on the IPC TechNet forum and I'm very
>>interested with it. Is that possible you could share more details of your
>>experiment with me? I have a customer who asked me to give them a number of
>>how many times of insertion the 30 micro inch electroplated edge connector
>>could take before any problem being raised?
>>
>>When you say 50~75 insertions, what exactly does that mean? Does it mean
>>the gold plating will be gone and Nickle be exposed? Or it would
>>malfunction? Or it's for high reliability maintained?!!
>>
>>Your opinion and information is highly appreciated. Many thanks!!
>>YH Shiau
>>
>>ps: Do you know similar experiments being performed by others??
>>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:41:16 +0530
>>From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>Hi Rick,
>>
>>THe selection of SMT machines is totally application dependent! Hence I
>>would suggest you specify that first. Like whether you'll be into low
>>volume-high mix assembly, or high volume-low mix, or low volume low mix,
>>....... and what components you need to be placed (0201 required?, BGAs,
>>micro BGAs, CSPs......) minimum pitch, odd shaped, etc..., your estimate of
>>the line speed in cph.
>>
>>I think once you have this data, many technetters will be able to give you
>>some idea!
>>
>>Good luck
>>
>>Vinit
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rick Thompson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:37 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
>>
>>
>>We're looking at possibly installing a new line and I'm hoping some of
>>you might care to share your opinions, recommendations, pro or con on
>>Panasonic, Siemens, Fuji from current users. If you have any insight
>>you wouldn't mind sharing, please contact me offline.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>Rick Thompson
>>Ventura Electronics Assembly
>>2655 Park Center Dr.
>>Simi Valley, CA 93065
>>
>>+1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice
>>+1 (805) 584-1529 fax
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>Technet NOMAIL
>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>>E-mail Archives
>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>ext.5315
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:16:07 EST
>>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Interesting trend lately...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about. We've been
>>looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I suppose,
>>"pre-owned" pick and place equipment.
>>
>>Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that are
>>buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market as they
>>can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us guys)
>>that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...
>>
>>They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are trying to
>>make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy "New" from them
>>by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they can...I guess
>>that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I guess
>>that's why I'm not a sales guy...
>>
>>Have any of you heard about this?
>>
>>-Steve Gregory-
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:32:20 -0500
>>From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>Stephen:
>>
>>This is a strategy that implies that the machines are breaking down more
>>frequently and that not enough spare parts are available.
>>Therefore, maintain an inventory of used parts and sell them at a
>>premium during this down-turn.
>>Similar to a car, the replacement cost of a single part is worth much
>>more than selling the total car itself.
>>
>>In addition, these machines are not sold from inventory so the next best
>>thing is the repair market.
>>
>>Just an opinion.
>>
>>Charlie McMahon
>>
>>
>>
>>Stephen R. Gregory wrote:
>>
>>>Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about. We've been
>>>looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I suppose,
>>>"pre-owned" pick and place equipment.
>>>
>>>Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that are
>>>buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market as they
>>>can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us guys)
>>>that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...
>>>
>>>They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are trying to
>>>make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy "New" from them
>>>by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they can...I guess
>>>that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I guess
>>>that's why I'm not a sales guy...
>>>
>>>Have any of you heard about this?
>>>
>>>-Steve Gregory-
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>--------
>>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>>Technet NOMAIL
>>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources &
>>>Databases > E-mail Archives
>>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>>ext.5315
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>--------
>>>
>>
>>
>>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:59:41 +1300
>>From: Chris Murphy <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
>>
>>Hi Steve,
>>
>>dont forget that for some of these suppliers part of their business is
>>to refurbish used machines and then offer them as a cheaper alternative
>>for companies that cant afford to buy new.
>>
>>If suppliers are buying all of the old machines to force people to buy
>>new, then they would have to make enough profit on the new machine to
>>offset the costs of buying the old ones, which might be pretty difficult
>>to do in today's competitive environment. Mind you, if they got the old
>>equipment cheaply enough, then maybe it's worth it.
>>
>>Two other theories are 1) More people want to buy second hand due to
>>cash constraints so the OEMs want to get more into this market, or 2)
>>The OEMs are trying to temporarily take these machines off the market so
>>that they get some work for their factories and dont have to shut them
>>down. If they believe the financial anaylsts then the US economy will
>>bounce back next year, and they can release the old equipment then.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Chris Murphy
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:11:48 -0800
>>From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>
>>Chris,
>>
>>Or, Theory 1 + Theory 2! That has my vote.
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>At 04:59 PM 12/12/01 +1300, you wrote:
>>>Hi Steve,
>>>
>>>dont forget that for some of these suppliers part of their business is
>>>to refurbish used machines and then offer them as a cheaper alternative
>>>for companies that cant afford to buy new.
>>>
>>>If suppliers are buying all of the old machines to force people to buy
>>>new, then they would have to make enough profit on the new machine to
>>>offset the costs of buying the old ones, which might be pretty difficult
>>>to do in today's competitive environment. Mind you, if they got the old
>>>equipment cheaply enough, then maybe it's worth it.
>>>
>>>Two other theories are 1) More people want to buy second hand due to
>>>cash constraints so the OEMs want to get more into this market, or 2)
>>>The OEMs are trying to temporarily take these machines off the market so
>>>that they get some work for their factories and dont have to shut them
>>>down. If they believe the financial anaylsts then the US economy will
>>>bounce back next year, and they can release the old equipment then.
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Chris Murphy
>Hi,
>
>I will be back on 12/17/01.
>
>Regards,
>Jong
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