Things have been changing, James...
I want you to notice, The most vociferous responses to my comments are from
NON-CID designers. Perhaps they are trying very hard to justify why they
aren't stepping up to the challenge...
Regardless of whether or not the CID is and exact 'equivalent' to a PE, it
serves the purpose for designers, and all PCB designers have had very few
good sources for well documented design education or any measure of that in
degree or certificate form from any college or training facility... we
gleaned what we could from the Mil specs, and Bishop graphics - and PCB
magazine. I would like to see the CID approach the equivalent of a PE...
with a real college level study course.
You prove my point though, the testing they were doing at the facility where
you were applying is and was a standard way of screening candidates. This is
changing... I have seen many job requirements in the last few years that had
a request for the CID as a 'plus' to any designer's qualifications... and as
'preferred' in a few instances. It is known now... it is respected now...
(albeit not by certain old fossil designers that don't want to be a part of
ANY organization, except maybe the AARP... ) and it IS the future of this
profession.
Designers that want to advance their careers need education, training, and
certification to tackle the design challenges ahead. That's why you see so
many designers doing the workshops and taking the tests. That's the
future... especially for those that do not want to be left behind.
Not all designers will get it... not all designers feel they need it... but
most of those designers will be retired in the next 10 years. The rest of us
will be certified. What about the ones who are in their 20's and 30's? They
are going to be dealing with the next generation boards that will no doubt
make what we are doing today look like child's play.
The IPC DC and its chapter organizations are building the roads that those
designers will follow to get there. Is there a chapter in your area? If not,
look into starting one. The IPC DC has guidelines on how to set up a chapter
on-line and willing helpers to assist you in getting it going. You can make
a difference in your area.
Guys like the ones who are knocking the certification program should be in
here helping to make it better, adding content to the education materials
and making sure the next generation of board designers has the collective
benefit of the knowledge that we all have collected of the past 50 years.
Critics are everywhere... what's needed are volunteers to help make it
better. Are you helping at the DC local chapter level? Are you one of the
few who are pitching in to make sure your knowledge doesn't disappear with
this generation? I know and admire all of the volunteers who are making it
happen in the face of all the obstacles. I recommend it highly to any other
designer who would like to make a difference too. Pitch in and help. We need
you.
P.S. I am planning on taking the CID+ exam in the near future, too.
Best regards,
Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
http://pcbwizards.com
-----Original Message-----
From: James Jackson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:59 AM
To: (Designers Council Forum); Brooks,Bill
Subject: Re: [DC] C.I.D.Certification Exam
Bill,
I took the CID exam - and passed it - years ago (1998). I paid for it out of
my own pocket, too - not relying on my company to pay for it - like another
group that was there.
My experience has been that when applying for jobs... 'human resources'
and/or the fella interviewing me has no knowledge of this 'CID' exam - or
what it means.
Most companies have developed (or the local one) their own 'exams' that they
seem to put more stock in - than this IPC certification. As an example... a
local employer has spent years defining, and refining a 'technical exam' for
anyone who wants to apply for ANY position at the technician level, in the
electronics area of the company. This includes P.C. Board layout designers.
Now... it has been years since I have had to think about how to design OpAmp
circuits... and I mean figure out the feedback resistors and such... not
doing the actual board layout.
BUT! They put more stock in whether you can do this, than whether you
actually know how to do a P.C.B Layout - which is what the position is for.
Go figure.
I am sure that if I politely pointed out to the person sitting at the front
desk - who is only able to 'grade' the exams... and has no knowledge of what
a PCB Designer does - that I have this CID... it wouldn't cut any ice.
If you don't 'pass' this magical technicians' exam... you don't even get to
speak with the next level person in Human Resources.
My point???
My CID hasn't done squat for my career - and this is the main reason that I
am not even interested - or considering taking the CID++ (or whatever it's
called).
My other thoughts on this... getting the CID - OR the CID++ does NOT mean
that you know how to design... it only means that you know how to take - and
pass - a test.
Most of the information on the CID was discussed in the classes prior to the
actual exam. All a bright person has to do is listen - remember, and take
the test. When they pass it - they get the certificate. Simple as that.
This is just my .02 worth.
Your mileage may vary.
Regards,
James Jackson
Oztronics
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [DC] C.I.D.Certification Exam
I guess that's my queue to jump in...
As long as I can remember, a designer's resume was the only document that
represented his/her level of expertise. Now, I have been doing this a long
time, since 1973, so I have seen a number of résumé's come across my desk
for evaluation and recommendation. I have watched people with fine résumé's
get hired and fired in the matter of a few weeks because the interview or
resume' did not reveal a deep lack of knowledge or work ethic in an
individual that only showed up in the work environment. I watched people
actually lie to the interviewer and we only really found out that they were
lying after they had been there for awhile fumbling or making inexperienced
mistakes. So, we started testing applicants. We never had a problem after
that. The potential candidates were asked to perform what they said they
could perform, and if they wanted the job they showed us what they could do.
The C.I.D. certificate is not given out for money, or bribery, or some sort
of subterfuge, but is ...earned... by showing the designer community that
you know what you know.
The hiring mangers know this too now, and are using the CID as a hiring
criteria in many cases. The CID does mean something, and it has earned the
respect of the companies that have paid for the designers they have to take
the test and get the certification too. The designers who were brave enough
to step up and be tested have earned the right to wear their CID mark with
real pride. You will notice they have it following their signatures and on
their business cards.
I equate this certification with the P.E. certificate that is awarded
Professional Engineers. They go through a similar process to get their
certification and it is recognized as an indication of their level of
knowledge in engineering.
The C.I.D. is the ONLY certificate a PCB designer can get that sets them
apart from the 'Wannabee' designers, drafters, and techs... and it is
respected by companies and designers in the industry who know what it takes
to pass the exam. That is why it is a highly prized and respected
certificate and the Designers Council, made up of PCB designers and
Engineers, is committed to always keep it that way.
That does not mean that anyone who does not have the certificate is not
qualified... They just have not been tested and certified. Certainly if they
were certified there would be no question as to their knowledge level. And
once tested they can compare that level with others who were brave enough to
have stepped forward and put their reputation on the line by testing and
certification.
The successful designers studied hard and even though the information may
seem to be simple and 'common knowledge' to many, you would be surprised how
many had difficulty with simple questions... The ones who did not pass
either did not study or just had no knowledge of the subject. After going
back and studying, they usually passed the second time they tested.
When I took the exam I was so keyed up and wanted to make sure I had it all
down before the exam, that there was a great deal of concern in my demeanor
and stress over the exam. I was not alone in this feeling, there were
designers who would not test at all who walked out because they realized
they were not ready for the test... there were those who cried tears over
the stress of getting tested, its not a 'walk in the park'. If I remember
correctly I missed 6 out of the 104 questions... so don't discount the
validity of the test or its difficulty, but realize that you can pass it
with study and hard work. It is truly a measure of the designers experience
level and their knowledge level and can be a very good thing to have on your
resume'.
Best regards,
Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
http://pcbwizards.com
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