Nick / Bill,
Sorry if I'm being a pain.
What has really got me upset is this online training coming up on the
IPC-7351. The Designer member gets a discount on the standard, however only
company members get the discount on the training for it.

Ray Johnston
Lead CAD Designer
Rane Corporation
425-355-6000
rayj@rane,com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [DC] IPC Design Specifications


> Just to reiterate...
>
> Designers already do get good discounts on a lot of specs by being members
> of the Designers Council. That's the best way for designers to get the
> specs
> they need. We are always lobbying to get discounts on key specs that are
> needed by the designers and we get them. If you see one that you think
> should be on the list... lets us know.
>
> See the DC website for the discounts available to members...
> http://dc.ipc.org/DCmembership/memhome.htm
> http://dc.ipc.org/DCMembership/DISCDOCS4DCmembers.pdf
> DC membership is 50.00 a year.
>
>
> Corporate Members are perceived and being participants in the spec
> creation
> process and as supporters of the IPC in general for the collective good of
> the industry through their membership dues and additional intellectual and
> financial contributions to the organization. Corporate membership is
> 1,000.00 a year.
>
> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=2.2
>
>
> IPC also participates globally with other organizations in getting
> consensus
> in standardization and absorbs the costs of getting the folks together to
> agree at meetings in different places around the world...
>
> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=2.1.2
>
> They are in the process of changing the focus of the IPC on being a global
> entity as opposed to just a manufacturers' representative organization.
>
> Nick is right to point out that their costs are substantial in making it
> possible to create the standards and there needs to be a way to fund
> this...
> very beneficial activity...
>
> There is a substantial overhead in running an organization of this size
> and
> scope.
> http://www.ipc.org/stafflist1.asp#pro
>
>
> The revenue streams are not well known by most of us designers... I am
> still
> trying to get my arms around that one... just to get a feel for the
> operating costs of the organization and how it gets money to operate the
> activities it's involved in and how it uses that money to fund activities
> related to educations, specification development government lobbying,
> etc...
>
>
> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=6.5.2.4
> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=6.5.2.3
> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=6.5.2.2
> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=6.5.2.1
>
>
>
> I don't know if the culture of the organization is able to change in such
> a
> way as to make the dissemination of the data more accessible to the lower
> income small companies and individuals than it already does... but being a
> optimist, I'm sure that they can find ways to improve somewhat and I know
> they want to... so if we just be positive by trying to bring the focus
> back
> to the issues at hand... maybe they will see a way... who knows.
>
> One great part of being a member is your ability to help shape the future
> and direction of the organization... through participation. I highly
> recommend involvement and participation... it's a great way to help change
> things for the better.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
> PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
> Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
> e-mail:[log in to unmask]
> http://www.dtwc.com
> http://pcbwizards.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Ban (PCBL) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 10:47 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DC] IPC Design Specifications
>
> Please don't misunderstand me, I am not for IPC becoming wealthy. However,
> I
> would like to see it operational 5 years from now.
>
> Lowering cost of the standards may get more people to purchase more, but
> that does not necessarily mean that IPC will be able to make up its
> expenses
> in creating and promoting of the standard (ie sustain itself).
>
> It seems to me it's about choosing the lesser of two evils:
>
> 1. Higher cost standards to cover the expenses
>        - Some cannot afford and probably illegally reproduce
>         standards; operating expenses met.
> 2. Low cost standards to make more affordable
>        - cost of creating standards remains high (even with the
>         cutbacks of the last several years), and liabilities
>         cannot be paid despite the fact that everybody in
>         the industry uses the standards.
>
> While most standard users would prefer option 2, it is not a good business
> model of any company that isn't otherwise adequately funded.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Johnston [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 11:54 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DC] IPC Design Specifications
>
> Nick,
> I don't think it about getting specifications and training for free. Its
> more about getting more affordable for the individual designer.
> Whether a member is an individual or a company should not be an issue when
> discounting to members. We all want standards to help get the job done
> right, but if they are unattainable then eventually the standard will be
> no
> more. It is more the individual then a company that keeps the standards a
> standard. I know from where I sit I get the (non-member)company I work for
> to buy standards from the IPC, because they are necessary. I am the only
> member at this company and in the past have had some trouble getting them
> to
>
> bite on the IPC standards.
> What I'm trying to say is that because a company has individual member(s),
> the company will buy standards at full price, and Rane (the company I work
> for) buys these standards for both Engineering and manufacturing.
> I would think this is worth more than a discount.
>
> Well thanks for letting me rant.
>
> Ray Johnston
> Lead CAD Designer
> Rane Corporation
> 425-355-6000
> rayj@rane,com
>
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