Nick / Bill, Sorry if I'm being a pain. What has really got me upset is this online training coming up on the IPC-7351. The Designer member gets a discount on the standard, however only company members get the discount on the training for it. Ray Johnston Lead CAD Designer Rane Corporation 425-355-6000 rayj@rane,com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [DC] IPC Design Specifications > Just to reiterate... > > Designers already do get good discounts on a lot of specs by being members > of the Designers Council. That's the best way for designers to get the > specs > they need. We are always lobbying to get discounts on key specs that are > needed by the designers and we get them. If you see one that you think > should be on the list... lets us know. > > See the DC website for the discounts available to members... > http://dc.ipc.org/DCmembership/memhome.htm > http://dc.ipc.org/DCMembership/DISCDOCS4DCmembers.pdf > DC membership is 50.00 a year. > > > Corporate Members are perceived and being participants in the spec > creation > process and as supporters of the IPC in general for the collective good of > the industry through their membership dues and additional intellectual and > financial contributions to the organization. Corporate membership is > 1,000.00 a year. > > http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=2.2 > > > IPC also participates globally with other organizations in getting > consensus > in standardization and absorbs the costs of getting the folks together to > agree at meetings in different places around the world... > > http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=2.1.2 > > They are in the process of changing the focus of the IPC on being a global > entity as opposed to just a manufacturers' representative organization. > > Nick is right to point out that their costs are substantial in making it > possible to create the standards and there needs to be a way to fund > this... > very beneficial activity... > > There is a substantial overhead in running an organization of this size > and > scope. > http://www.ipc.org/stafflist1.asp#pro > > > The revenue streams are not well known by most of us designers... I am > still > trying to get my arms around that one... just to get a feel for the > operating costs of the organization and how it gets money to operate the > activities it's involved in and how it uses that money to fund activities > related to educations, specification development government lobbying, > etc... > > > http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=6.5.2.4 > http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=6.5.2.3 > http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=6.5.2.2 > http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=6.5.2.1 > > > > I don't know if the culture of the organization is able to change in such > a > way as to make the dissemination of the data more accessible to the lower > income small companies and individuals than it already does... but being a > optimist, I'm sure that they can find ways to improve somewhat and I know > they want to... so if we just be positive by trying to bring the focus > back > to the issues at hand... maybe they will see a way... who knows. > > One great part of being a member is your ability to help shape the future > and direction of the organization... through participation. I highly > recommend involvement and participation... it's a great way to help change > things for the better. > > Best regards, > > > Bill Brooks - KG6VVP > PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I. > Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 > e-mail:[log in to unmask] > http://www.dtwc.com > http://pcbwizards.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Ban (PCBL) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 10:47 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [DC] IPC Design Specifications > > Please don't misunderstand me, I am not for IPC becoming wealthy. However, > I > would like to see it operational 5 years from now. > > Lowering cost of the standards may get more people to purchase more, but > that does not necessarily mean that IPC will be able to make up its > expenses > in creating and promoting of the standard (ie sustain itself). > > It seems to me it's about choosing the lesser of two evils: > > 1. Higher cost standards to cover the expenses > - Some cannot afford and probably illegally reproduce > standards; operating expenses met. > 2. Low cost standards to make more affordable > - cost of creating standards remains high (even with the > cutbacks of the last several years), and liabilities > cannot be paid despite the fact that everybody in > the industry uses the standards. > > While most standard users would prefer option 2, it is not a good business > model of any company that isn't otherwise adequately funded. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Johnston [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 11:54 AM > To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [DC] IPC Design Specifications > > Nick, > I don't think it about getting specifications and training for free. Its > more about getting more affordable for the individual designer. > Whether a member is an individual or a company should not be an issue when > discounting to members. We all want standards to help get the job done > right, but if they are unattainable then eventually the standard will be > no > more. It is more the individual then a company that keeps the standards a > standard. I know from where I sit I get the (non-member)company I work for > to buy standards from the IPC, because they are necessary. I am the only > member at this company and in the past have had some trouble getting them > to > > bite on the IPC standards. > What I'm trying to say is that because a company has individual member(s), > the company will buy standards at full price, and Rane (the company I work > for) buys these standards for both Engineering and manufacturing. > I would think this is worth more than a discount. > > Well thanks for letting me rant. > > Ray Johnston > Lead CAD Designer > Rane Corporation > 425-355-6000 > rayj@rane,com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV > 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil. > To temporarily stop/(restart) delivery of DesignerCouncil send: SET > DesignerCouncil NOMAIL/(MAIL) > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-615-7100 ext.2815 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil. To temporarily stop/(restart) delivery of DesignerCouncil send: SET DesignerCouncil NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------