----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 7:46
AM
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Manufacturers
Earl,
Perhaps you would look at this in a different perspective.
Network Circuits is also in the business of making
a profit (God forbid). Have we always made a profit on
orders? Nope, not always. Well why not? Well, because
often we are working with the customer to help them prove
out an idea, to develop a new technology or design,
assist them in improvements to an existing design to improve
both theirs and our efficiency, and the list goes
on and on and on. So we lose our ass some times. Well then
why the heck do we continue to do this? Hmmm,
could be because we consider ourselves partners with our
customers. We realize that when they win, we also
win. Could be because we realize the importance of moving
towards the future created or suggested by our
customer, they realize where their money will be coming
from, and us, as their partner in this, are here to
make this as easy as possible. Together, together, together
we learn new processes, technology is shared
between us, we learn and grow in a mutual relationship that
may not only benefit the two companies but I
am reasonably sure that these type relationships may have
resulted in many of the technological changes
all of us have witnessed in the past. Yes we may have lost
money at times, but what we learned through
this has allowed at least this one board shop to
grow.
Of course this is just the opinion of a Quality Assurance
Manager of a PCB fabricator, so accept this as you
see fit.
Franklin
Joe,
There are some outstanding
examples of your type. Tyco, and 10% or the
others, have done an admirable
job, though not keeping ahead of demand.
After some years in the
business, on many sides of the fence (how many can
there be - you'd be
suprised) very few innovations or technological changes
come from
fabricators. That's the shame.
We are currently pushing, not being
pulled by, 3000 I/O's on selected
BGA/CGA types on .8 mm. We've been
pushing the envelope for years asking,
not pleading and begging, shops to
get with the program. However, as long as
there is reasonable profit, few
followed - let alone led. As an example, I
once worked with a premier board
shop. The motto on the door, upon entry,
was we are a profit making
organization. We'll do anything for your money
and we did - some of the
time.
Earl Moon
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Dickson
<[log in to unmask]>
To:
<[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday,
October 04, 1999 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB
Manufacturers
> To all I politely disagree,
>
> I
have been to no less than six IPC sponsored seminars
> specifically gear
to the future trends in the IC industry.
> We now have a presentation
that doesn't focus on manufacturing
> anymore, but how to use
manufacturing techniques for routing
> advances. We are currently
working on a 2000 plus I/O BGA at .8 mm
> pitch. I'm sure there
are other board shops working with
> customers with even higher routing
needs. I'm surprised someone
> directly from IPC hasn't responded
to this e-mail. This has been one
> of the most popular issues
that I've attended in the last two years.
> Our seminars for routing
techniques has become the best
> attended seminar we sponsor. Even
over the PCB manufacturing
> guidelines.
>
> Just a
thought,
> Joe Dickson
> Dir. of Engineering
> Tyco Printed
Circuit Division
> Santa Clara, Calif.
>
>
>
>
> Paul: Here's my two cents worth-
> >
> > It gets worse
if you think that the PCB manufacturers aren't talking to
> > their
customer base. They definitely do not talk to the component
> >
manufacturers. Over the past 24 months, I have had the
unusual
happenstance
> > to visit virtually every IC assembly
facility in Asia, as well as many
in
> > Europe. These include
both captive houses, as well as foundry services.
> >
> > In
only one case (IBM) did I find that any PCB manufacturer had ever
> >
inquired as to where the IC interconnect industry was headed,
either
> > strategically or short term. How can one industry
understand what its
future
> > requirements will be if they do not
understand where their greatest
> > challenges are coming
from.
> >
> > The art of copper placement on FR4 is not new;
great strides have been
made
> > to create finer and finer line
widths at greater and greater planar
> > densities. However, these
are mere drops in the bucket when you consider
the
> > available
of 50um wire bonding at 10um pitches. The IC industry can do
this
>
> today if it only had a FR4 substrate capable of accepting it.
>
>
> > As a end user of the PCB industry, it seems the only time we
get to talk
to
> > our PCB suppliers is when there is trouble-
either in product
performance
> > (quality, line yields, etc.),
pricing or delivery.
> >
> > Best regards,
>
>
Bill Davis, Ph.D.
>
>
Sr. Scientist
>
>
(408) 325-7868
>
>
[log in to unmask]
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Paul Brown [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 2:39 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN]
PCB Manufacturers
> >
> >
> > Well
>
>
> > So far we have managed to obtain about 5 replies from PCB
manufacturers
out
> > of how may thousands worldwide
>
>
> > Can anyone suggest a way of getting them involved ?
>
>
> > Surely its about time that the people that use PCB,s( PWB,s)
started
talking
> > to the people that make them!
>
>
> > I used to be a specialty chemical supplier to the PCB
industry in the UK
and
> > realized a long time ago that users of
pcbs don't talk to the
manufacturers,
> > they send them a design
and that's it
> > The problem is users don't often understand the
processes involved in
> > manufacture
> >
> > Any
comments
> >
> >
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> > information.
> > If you need
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> >
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for
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> information.
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