Earl,
Perhaps you would look at this in a different perspective.
Network Circuits is also in the business of making
a profit (God forbid). Have we always made a profit on orders?
Nope, not always. Well why not? Well, because
often we are working with the customer to help them prove out
an idea, to develop a new technology or design,
assist them in improvements to an existing design to improve
both theirs and our efficiency, and the list goes
on and on and on. So we lose our ass some times. Well then why
the heck do we continue to do this? Hmmm,
could be because we consider ourselves partners with our
customers. We realize that when they win, we also
win. Could be because we realize the importance of moving
towards the future created or suggested by our
customer, they realize where their money will be coming from,
and us, as their partner in this, are here to
make this as easy as possible. Together, together, together we
learn new processes, technology is shared
between us, we learn and grow in a mutual relationship that
may not only benefit the two companies but I
am reasonably sure that these type relationships may have
resulted in many of the technological changes
all of us have witnessed in the past. Yes we may have lost
money at times, but what we learned through
this has allowed at least this one board shop to
grow.
Of course this is just the opinion of a Quality Assurance
Manager of a PCB fabricator, so accept this as you
see fit.
Franklin
Joe,
There are some outstanding
examples of your type. Tyco, and 10% or the
others, have done an admirable
job, though not keeping ahead of demand.
After some years in the
business, on many sides of the fence (how many can
there be - you'd be
suprised) very few innovations or technological changes
come from
fabricators. That's the shame.
We are currently pushing, not being pulled
by, 3000 I/O's on selected
BGA/CGA types on .8 mm. We've been pushing the
envelope for years asking,
not pleading and begging, shops to get with the
program. However, as long as
there is reasonable profit, few followed - let
alone led. As an example, I
once worked with a premier board shop. The motto
on the door, upon entry,
was we are a profit making organization. We'll do
anything for your money
and we did - some of the time.
Earl
Moon
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Dickson <[log in to unmask]>
To:
<[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday,
October 04, 1999 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Manufacturers
>
To all I politely disagree,
>
> I have been to no less than six IPC
sponsored seminars
> specifically gear to the future trends in the IC
industry.
> We now have a presentation that doesn't focus on
manufacturing
> anymore, but how to use manufacturing techniques for
routing
> advances. We are currently working on a 2000 plus I/O BGA
at .8 mm
> pitch. I'm sure there are other board shops working
with
> customers with even higher routing needs. I'm surprised
someone
> directly from IPC hasn't responded to this e-mail. This
has been one
> of the most popular issues that I've attended in the last
two years.
> Our seminars for routing techniques has become the
best
> attended seminar we sponsor. Even over the PCB
manufacturing
> guidelines.
>
> Just a thought,
> Joe
Dickson
> Dir. of Engineering
> Tyco Printed Circuit
Division
> Santa Clara, Calif.
>
>
>
> > Paul:
Here's my two cents worth-
> >
> > It gets worse if you think
that the PCB manufacturers aren't talking to
> > their customer base.
They definitely do not talk to the component
> > manufacturers. Over
the past 24 months, I have had the unusual
happenstance
> > to visit
virtually every IC assembly facility in Asia, as well as many
in
> >
Europe. These include both captive houses, as well as foundry services.
>
>
> > In only one case (IBM) did I find that any PCB manufacturer
had ever
> > inquired as to where the IC interconnect industry
was headed, either
> > strategically or short term. How can one
industry understand what its
future
> > requirements will be if they
do not understand where their greatest
> > challenges are coming
from.
> >
> > The art of copper placement on FR4 is not new;
great strides have been
made
> > to create finer and finer line
widths at greater and greater planar
> > densities. However, these are
mere drops in the bucket when you consider
the
> > available of 50um
wire bonding at 10um pitches. The IC industry can do
this
> > today
if it only had a FR4 substrate capable of accepting it.
> >
>
> As a end user of the PCB industry, it seems the only time we get to
talk
to
> > our PCB suppliers is when there is trouble- either in
product
performance
> > (quality, line yields, etc.), pricing or
delivery.
> >
> > Best regards,
>
>
Bill Davis, Ph.D.
>
>
Sr. Scientist
>
>
(408) 325-7868
>
>
[log in to unmask]
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Paul Brown [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 2:39 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] PCB
Manufacturers
> >
> >
> > Well
> >
>
> So far we have managed to obtain about 5 replies from PCB
manufacturers
out
> > of how may thousands worldwide
>
>
> > Can anyone suggest a way of getting them involved ?
>
>
> > Surely its about time that the people that use PCB,s( PWB,s)
started
talking
> > to the people that make them!
>
>
> > I used to be a specialty chemical supplier to the PCB industry
in the UK
and
> > realized a long time ago that users of pcbs don't
talk to the
manufacturers,
> > they send them a design and that's
it
> > The problem is users don't often understand the processes
involved in
> > manufacture
> >
> > Any
comments
> >
> >
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