Hi Steve, Couldn't resist a response. Being a senior staff member which has worked his way up from an hourly position of building test fixtures and running etchers, I can appreciate your frustration. However, I can assure you the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. It seems apparent that you are as equally focused on spending money to ease manufacturing burdens as management is focused on not spending money to ensure continued profitability. However, as a manager I doubt your position and requests are falling on deaf ears. If you management team is successful at making profit, I'm certain they listen. Otherwise they wouldn't be successful. Managers must weigh every expense with a return on that investment. Simply put, how will the company pay for the equipment you want. A companies budget is not unlike that of a normal house hold. There is typically a limited amount of income which must match an almost endless flow out outgoing cash flow. Much like your paycheck having to meet your monthly living expenses. In a well managed business , a profit is made( much like your personal saving account ) . From the profits comes new equipment, employee raises, and other essentials that are necessary for a business to continue to grow. Now, you want a new piece of equipment. I suspect you would also like to drive a Mercedes as well but wanting doesn't make it so. If you have been able to save a considerable amount of money in your savings account, would you spend your hard saved money on a Mercedes if you really didn't need it. As many of the other responses suggested, figure out how this new equipment will pay for itself. This can be in either cost savings ( reduced payroll via cut in overtime or headcount) or perhaps increased sales dollars resulting from increased throughput or technical capabilities ( provided the sales are available). Usually either of these can sway management into a purchase. Using quality is getting tougher and tougher. This I speak form experience, I currently would like to have several pieces of equipment but since our yields are so high, I can't justify it though reduction in costs related to poor quality. Although I know the equipment I want is better, runs easier, has less breakdown, is easier to service and is more efficient, I simply can't justify spending the money since what I currently have does a good job with respect to yields and is not even close to maximizing its efficiency. Other considerations you may be unaware of. Profit does not always mean you have unlimited money in the bank. There could very well be financing considerations involved. Sometimes even companies that show high profits have trouble getting their hands on large sums of cash which are needed for major capital expenditures. Buying capital equipment is not as easy as running to store and writing a check. So you see Steve, your not alone if your frustration. You are accompanied by both engineers and managers alike. Ed Cosper ABC ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. If you need assistance - contact Gayatri Sardeshpande at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5365 ##############################################################