Stupid questions, sorry... 1.) "...should be more vocal about large holes (as one example, bigger than .125") in GIL systems and the risks involved,..." Risks involved -- __________________ 2.) "... and the associated risks when there isn't the support of un-used pads left in the artwork...I found this out the hard way." Found out --- ______________________ Regards -----Original Message----- From: Stephen R. Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 6:18 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Manufacturers In a message dated 10/4/99 7:44:43 PM Central Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes: > TechNet, > > I would like to throw in my two cents...before this subject goes from > amusing to outright ugly... > > I disagree with some of the comments made by a few people on this subject, > as a matter of fact I have experienced quite the opposite first hand. "Just > build it the way it is designed" or "Just follow the drawing and leave the > thinking to us" is a quite common answer that I guess all PCB manufacturers > receive every day. > > In my company (as I guess in many others around the US and the whole planet) > we have the bad habit of checking the artwork for manufacturability before > we even start building the board - I am sure that most of my colleagues will > agree that 90% of the times the designers and engineers on the other side of > the phone line completely ignore all the manufacturability > improvements/changes proposed by the PCB Fabricator. > > Sorry, but after that I can't find anything wrong in building a product that > follows the specifications and the requirement that were given to me, we may > ask but if we are not allowed to fix anything we build it the way it is. Kiko, You are "abso-tively" correct! In my relatively "fresh" experience in this arena, I've found that the military, and hi-rel boards are the absolutely biggest nightmare when it comes to DFM... There are spec's that are out there that make absolutely no sense when it comes to what we all know now, but because of the 'friggen paper trail that has to accompany ANY change to the drawing, no one wants to try and tackle it... and this comes from the customers themselves. So what do we do? We are all taxpayers and we pay for this stuff? Who do we go to and say that the design for a national security product is outdated? Why do we deal with obsolete technology ideas that was first learned about 20-years ago and try to change it? I'm a old fart too, but I can learn new tricks...the system that we have when it comes to electronics for the government and military have such a cumbersome way of changing the design to take advantage of new developments, that we all continue to try and build assemblies that are un-manufactuable in most cases... This thread should be on the designers forum... But again, the fab shops in my opinion, should be more vocal about large holes (as one example, bigger than .125") in GIL systems and the risks involved, and the associated risks when there isn't the support of un-used pads left in the artwork...I found this out the hard way. I also learned that a decent test coupon should include ALL the circuitry and holes...NOT just the IPC test coupon! Think about it, be pro-active! -Steve Gregory- ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. If you need assistance - contact Gayatri Sardeshpande at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5365 ############################################################## ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. If you need assistance - contact Gayatri Sardeshpande at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5365 ##############################################################