Would not be degenerated to Cray ever, pumpkin : if we'd keep our instincts as wild creatures do we would not have to die in quake's rubbles. There's more to neurals than lousy abacus. Floating just about as much as Bev does on this one, my tip on this one would be Earl(hey, it's Friday and he'll be in good mood); Roger, intel or ibm folks, and few wise silent one's. Still, I shall allow your reverse psychology succeed : Yes for the actual fab process you need a fab fellow (and as you did discover ; the eastern minds do work differently, combination helps ; unless you hand over THE spot in Q, you'll get "yes Ingesan" for a long time). However, years ago Wernersan got me hooked on this great tool with dumb title : Event Detector. He's been even kind enough (as usual standing up to his own [rather extreme]ethics,[pity he does not need any of this free advertising]) to baby-sit me to the right one including the contacts , so since you came with yet another of your brilliant Q's (how do we indeed analyze?); here are the pros : 1 go and check : http://www.analysistech.com 2 Contact John Sofia (tirelessly patient fellow): [log in to unmask] . copied John on this mail 3 According to my files , Michael Becker from Raytheon should have some insights; [log in to unmask] ; copied Mike on this mail 4 Jean-Paul Clech of EPSI could have a view; [log in to unmask] copied Jean-Paul on this mail 5 I have here (smiling at me) Model 128/256 STD ; from the sound of it you will not need anything this monstrous for your crack hunt = check with John . Unfortunately ours is in full time hook up; otherwise I'd (cross my heart) FedEx you this one for a while. 6 That reminds me John, my is out of cal. do I REALLY have to ship it across the puddle ? 7 Inge don't ask how to attach the wires ; answer would be boring : under 100x micro with great care : preferably by abstinent microsurgeon (not you, needless to say hey ?) Obviously you have no problems with quantity of silver polymers ; wire bonders you should have laying around as well . Fast fix seconds you can find on : http:/www.biservice.com Just daisywire the length in question ; that "somewhere" should not be that mysterious with sufficient feelers density . 8 Considering that Guten Wienersnitzel (glorified [justly] breadcrumbs extended steak); Werner may bite as well, copied . Good luck again Paul Klasek ResMed PS Continent, my friend ; unlike some Baltic appendages -----Original Message----- From: Ingemar Hernefjord (EMW) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, 16 September 1999 17:12 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] HISTACK, IBM-type, japs Guten Wienerschnitzel, netters, challenge for an IBM-guy if he reads (no, of course he doesn't, big Blue too big) , maybe my mate and competitor Bev can rise his eyebrow and move his finger to the keyboard. Topic: multilayer 3D "boards" with IBMs liftoff and PI dielectric. Reactive Ion etch (O2/He RIE) through mask for removing PI, followed by WSiN sputter for biting and low current electroplating for first step making the vias. Vias are finally O2 plasma, SF6 RIE'd. Now, most seems maybe familiar to you, but, the problem is that the conductors are only 4um wide and the vias 1um in diameter. Test "board" consists of single to two layers with very short conductors, daysichained, let's say a hundred such strips. See it in front of you: gold, under is the via, via goes horizontally some um, goes up to next gold, .. up, down, up down, like chaining an ordinarey PWB, but one decade smaller. And, PI is the dielectric, approx 2um thick. Now, palomas, the Q: when these "boards" are temcycled we get interrupts somewhere in the daisychain, seen as RF signal anomalies. How on earth do we analyse? Ordinary SEM of surface tells nothing of what's under the conductor. Finefocus Xray has unsufficient resolution for finding microcracks. Sonoscan, no. Cross-sectioning, no, weeks of job, little chanse of finding rupture. Reactive etching will heat and possibly take both Gold and PI. Wet etching, e.g. KaC? Takes Au, but what do you do with the W under Au? Agree, more like semiconductor techs. Oftenly when we have to do with the japs, we describe with hands, paper, mail, photos and words, and they reply 'yes', 'yes', which is oftenly of little help. So, Bev (I'm sure you have a recipe in your pocket) and like, what do I do with the drunken saylor? Aussilek, give up, you can't be specialist on everything, you must have some limitation, please, tell that you are a human and not a Cray. (on that isle you may say crayfish, I don' t know). Cu? Ingemar Hernefjord Ericsson Microwave Systems PS. With HISTACK, I mean that our test samples remind of this EU-thing, but does not belong to EU at all. ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. 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