I think Paul is correct, communication is the key. Try to get purchasing to Understand the ramifications. By being on technet, I as a buyer, am trying To understand the technical side of PCB's. I get very frustrated when QC Rejects something and then will not explain to me the reasons. I think that If my QC could come to me and explain their reasons, I would be more willing To go to the supplier and fight harder to get the issue corrected. When my Supplier comes back to me and says "show me where it is out of spec" and I have no answer for them, I feel stupid, when all I can say is "visual inspection". No board house wants to get back "rejects", as these are custom products, They have no other customer they could sell them to, if they can't fix them, They go in the trash. I am working for the best for my company, but I also Understand that if we keep rejecting material our costs will have to go up Because the board house will want to re-coup part of the profits lost when We return product. We try to work with our suppliers to do what is best for Both of us. I understand that not every issue is "cut & dried", but with better Communication, maybe we can take care of some of them. Jackie Jebens Purchasing Manager GoldenRAM -----Original Message----- From: Paul Klasek [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 5:03 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Dewetting Issues Good to hear you Kathy ; be it sad issues . Pity Steve's not yet fully on line ; he'd tell you better than me : Been there ; done that . Trouble is Kathy ; yo're both right : Your tech sense on clear test result gives clear verdict : fail Purchasing knows if they knock back the boards/order/etc. they will quite likely not see the customer again = their view : fail When sandwiched in past: I enclosed all tests (wetability, vibrational if requested, etc.) . Just cover yours by proper documentation : Did the test ; informed client of ramifications ; ask him if they want it followed by vibration or shock test (no time for cycling) they would pay for obviously ; inform them on warranty ramifications of all of this mess , and than sleep in peace . Communicate ; I know sensistivity lessons sound strange from me ; but believe me, when required, we should all be gentle, on ourselves as well : Where I came from the saying goes : Loosing health for "limitations" of others does make you the same . Cheers paul PS Aspirin ? -----Original Message----- From: Kathy Palumbo [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, 29 July 1999 5:45 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Dewetting Issues FYI They (purchasing) did not believe the solderability testing so they had us build up boards anyway. When the boards passed test they said there was no problem with the boards. We all know this is not accurrate, because if you put enough solder down you can mask off just about any dewetting problem out there. Believe me I have already pondered the worse case senerio! Regards, Kathy Palumbo -----Original Message----- From: Franklin [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 12:20 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Dewetting Issues Kathy, Why would you be concerned with 'long term solderability' issues when you have this initial solderability condition to deal with? Seems to me the argument should be the 'here and now', and not the 'what if'. All I know about reliability studies are those I have first hand experience with, and that being as I wrote above, if they fail from the beginning, they will not get any better sitting on a shelf. <smile> Something to ponder. Franklin D Asbell, CQA Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. 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If you need assistance - contact Gayatri Sardeshpande at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5365 ############################################################## ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. If you need assistance - contact Gayatri Sardeshpande at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5365 ############################################################## ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. If you need assistance - contact Gayatri Sardeshpande at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5365 ##############################################################