In a message dated 18/05/99 06:29:51AM, you write: > Hi Mike, > in response to your mail, I still am wondering how EPO-TEK can insist > that helium leakage rate of 1x10exp-8. Such low rates use to be obtained > in metal housings only. If, I say, if the rate is such low, then you > meet the military specs, and accordingly, you can seal with H77. It's a > serious temptation, isn't it? /Ingemar Hernefjord ----- Hi Ingemar When one responds to an open forum it is necessary to be circumspect, and sometimes give answers which can only hint at what is meant. In a private communication it is possible to be a little more direct, so for oyu here is my more direct answer. In a legal court we are obliged to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth - and be prepared to support our story with evidence under cross examination. In data sheets this rigorous environment does not apply. My experience of adhesive suppliers is that they are sometimes .... how shall we say ..... "optimistic" about their products. Some are very optimistic indeed bordering on the creative in fact. [I am sure that you have experienced this particularly on cure schedules and so on.] So in my open response I suggested that there were different conditions of test one of which might be less onerous to pass and so on. This was a very polite way of suggesting that people might like to check up on the actual test mathods Epotek used and maybe ask for some documentation of the the test results and so on. If you did this I think you will find that what they are reporting is the result of a simple evaluation done by a customer where they found the number quoted. We are now looking at this number in isolation and putting it in our own minds into the context of the general tests methods for MIL specs and so on and as a result wondering how it can be true. Be aware that I write as a former supplier for Epotek and Ablestik here in UK. You can be sure that I recognised the significance of the the claim and looked for corroboration immediately I saw it when representing Epotek, and later checked it out with Ablestik when I moved to the company selling them. My advise is not to believe it means that you can generally use H77 instead of metal or ceramic packaging/sealing and meet MIL spec test requirements. The test they did was no indicator for long term reliability, it simply produced the number quoted. BUT But, having said all that, I also think that the whole MIL/Space etc requirements scenario should be looked at with a certain amount of detatched cynicism. Specifications are after all a great marketing weapon, for promoting yourself or keeping the other people out, for creating a whole new industry for writing testing having meetings and revisions and .... so on. MAybe Epotek are right to calim that you can be hermetic with their product if by hermetic you mean it can function as well as a metal sealed part in real life. Here is an example of what I mean: I did some work here with a company that make military spec computers, basically these were standard IBM PC types that had to work in the battlefield. So all the processors were in metal or ceramic packages and so on and the whole assembly was put in sealed dark green metal enclosures and so on. This was very expensive as you can imagine and when peace broke out they were told that the cost of their PCbased equipment had to go from something like £10K to £5K. So I was asked to see how to help them with some conformal coatings and special thermal management products and so on. My advise was like this: 1) You are already buying the most efficent way you can, 2) it might be posible to shave another few pounds off here and there. 3) It will not be possible to shave half the cost away. You need a fundamental change. 3) Why not go down to the local computer shop and buy a standard PC fpr £1K, and then look at spending £3K on it to make it conform to MIL requirements. THis will be much easier. 4) Keep the other £1k for a better profit. So the point of the story is that by careful application of some UV cure material to the plastic components and by conformal coating the whole assembly it was possible to get the same reliability performacne for the whole assembly as when individual components were made from hermetically sealed metal/ceramic components. However the individually treated components were not "hermetic" when tested individually to the same standards as their ceramic/metal packed counterparts.. Best regards Mike ps: the effective additional cost of the coatings and process costs was less than £50. pps: I prefer not to imagine all the money that has been spent on military hardware, my tax bill and ... ################################################################ TechNet E-Mail Forum provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ################################################################ To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TechNet <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TechNet ################################################################ Please visit IPC's web site (http://www.ipc.org) "On-Line Services" section for additional information. For technical support contact Hugo Scaramuzza at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.312 ################################################################