Hi Connie, Yes I have heard and used the term "shiner" before but only in the context of a small bright spot on the copper. what you are describing sounds like it could be one of two things. 1. Pink ring. - If the board is a multilayer and the spots are located around or between holes that have either large internal plane or pad. This could be what you are seeing. 2. Pregel - This is a term I haven't used in a while but sometimes you can get what looks likes small white spots just below the surface of the laminate. This can be caused by permature curing of the resin during the lamination process. I used to deal with this condition frequently when I worked with BT resin lamininate a few years ago. In either case, if there is not evidence of actual separtion I don't think it will cause you any problems. However, without actually seeing the condition, this is just a guess. Sorry I could be more helpful. Ed Cosper Director Quality Assurance and Engineering Graphic Electronics Inc. Tulsa OK. ---------- From: Connie Korth Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:41 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Bare Board imperfections Good Morning, I don't know how to explain this, but here goes... I have a bare board with, what appears to be, delamination but I don't think it is.(can't identify any layer separation). There are four spots in the board (not on surface) that are much lighter than the rest of the board. These areas are in line with each other. Someone said it looked like a 'shiner'. Has anyone heard this term before? If so, what is it, what causes this condition, and is there any document referring to the acceptability of the condition? I looked through the IPC-A-600, but couldn't find anything that resembled this. From someone who's trying to learn... ps(I'm not real familiar with bare board acceptability conditions like this so be gentle) Connie Korth K-Byte Hibbing Manufacturing ################################################################ TechNet E-Mail Forum provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ################################################################ To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TechNet <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TechNet ################################################################ Please visit IPC's web site (http://www.ipc.org) "On-Line Services" section for additional information. For technical support contact Hugo Scaramuzza at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.312 ################################################################