Mike... We have been using SCICARDS software since 1976 to HELP design complex multilayer boards. Our present designs are 14-16 layer, SMT components (256 CQFP, 223 CPGA, etc) both sides, impedance controlled, high critical run count (20%-40% of routes), etc. We have resisted blind/buried vias and imbedded caps/res due to low production rate and soft electrically definition. Thru the years we have evaluated many packages including, but not limited to Calay, Cadnetix, Racal, etc and have been told that we were to transition over to Racal-Redac (6 yrs ago), Cadance (4 yrs ago) and Mentor Graphics (now???). During all these years, good old SCICARDS has just been sitting, out of the spotlight, knocking out designs while the sales guys do over the managers, who have never worked on a design, and convince them that their MAGIC PUSH BUTTON SYSTEM is better than sliced bread. I love you SCICARDS, can I have your Bud..oops wrong commercial. I may have gone into too much, but if you are evaluating a software package, get the troops in the trenches involved and DON"T believe anything the sales guy tell you....do it with YOUR benchmark. My 10 cents and off the soapbox. Have a good day and good luck. Bob Vanech Bob Vanech Norden Systems ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. For the technical support contact Dmitriy Sklyar at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.311 ##############################################################