Jack... I don't totally agree with your statement " What choice is there? Unless I go to purchasing and demand to know production vendors in advance! Yeah, everyone jumps when designers request things, right?" That is JUST what you do, if you can prove your point with facts to higher management or the Quality Dept. We have experienced some of the problems that you mentions because a certain % of orders MUST go to certain shops, but we have been able to give the simpler designs to them and the tougher builds to those that are capable. In fact, when we go out to qualify a fab house, the survey group consists of Purchasing, Quality AND MECHANICAL DESIGN. Don't give in to the Bean Counters..fight back with facts and if that doesn't work, kill them ( obviiously that last part is a joke, so save you flames).... Bob Vanech *************************************************************************** * TechNet mail list is provided as a service by IPC using SmartList v3.05 * *************************************************************************** * To unsubscribe from this list at any time, send a message to: * * [log in to unmask] with <subject: unsubscribe> and no text. * ***************************************************************************