May be your "small expensive friends" should do a thermal shock 5 or 10 times prior to assembly to eliminate the problem at PWB level. (fly probe before and after). Good old days, all the high end stuff are pre-screened at batch level prior to assemble and "burn-in" thermal shock 10 times prior to ship to root out any early failure = usually at developing stage, not MFG stage). Exactly try to avoid expensive mistake later, (was replaced later by a coupon on pwb with (1) finest feature (2) weakest location (3) new features and (4) testable electrically at functional level somewhat, not cheap, but cheaper than risk at assembly level). Follow the rule of "pay me now and pay me less, or Pay me later and pay me more - usually 10X, if not 100X< more with debug FA add on and time loss on delivery. Joyce Koo Materials Researcher - Materials Interconnect Lab Research In Motion Limited Office: (519) 888-7465 79945 Mobile: (226) 220-4760 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Kondner Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 3:41 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Broken Vias Amol, Good Questions, I will find out. Thanks, Bob K. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amol Kane (Asteelflash,US) Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 3:30 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Broken Vias Were the boards moisture baked before assembly? .....is the stackup balanced? Is the via damage more pronounced in the area of warpage? Amol Kane Process Engineer AsteelFlash US East Corp Tel: (607) 687.7669 x349 (O) www.asteelflash.com ITAR Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential. It is intended for the recipient only. Prior to forwarding this e-mail or opening any attachments please note that they may contain security sensitive, proprietary, or export restricted information. Any unauthorized disclosure, use, dissemination, or copying is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Furthermore, this communication may contain technical information that is subject to U.S. Export Control Laws, including the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) or the Dept. of Commerce Export Administration Regulation (EAR). If so, transfer to a foreign national or representative of a foreign government or interest, even in the U.S., without prior Government authorization is prohibited and violation of such Export Control Laws is subject to significant penalties. If you received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by replying to this e-mail and delete the e-mail and all copies from your computer. Although the sender and Asteelflash have taken every reasonable precaution, the e-mail and attachments may have some errors or omissions and may contain viruses. We cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of that -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Kondner Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:02 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Broken Vias Hi, Does anyone know about the TCE of via plug material? I am trying to get a material number of what was used. This was the first board we ever ran with via plugging but I would think that is a well-known process? Bob K. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jason Zhao Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 12:52 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Broken Vias Bob, Xsection will show you where the opens occur. Possibilities are: copper plating folds; thin copper; corner crack; post separation; separation due to no wraparound; etc. Then we can determine the root causes from there (there are too many to guess now). Looking forward to some pictures. Best Regards Jason Zhao VP of North America Operations Sunshine Circuits 3400 Silverstone Drive, Suite 139, Plano, TX 75023 US Cell 510-468-4412, China Cell 131-62722392 www.sunshinepcbgroup.com -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Kondner Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 10:18 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Broken Vias Hi, A small company in the area has a board with two very expensive parts, about $3K each part. They built 30 boards and had lots of open via connections. They are getting cross sections now on some bad vias. In addition to many bad vias there was some board warp. Sorry I don't have any hard numbers on bad via counts or warp. These were 10 mil holes in .062 material, a 6:1 aspect ratio, should be easy. Vias were plugged and plated so they could be used as flying probe test points. After reflow assembly the boards were run on a wave machine using a mask where about 25% of the board was exposed to the wave. Everything lead free. Question: Can folks suggest lists of items we can check, measure or inquire into? Any guesses or ideas as what might be going on? Thanks, Bob K. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. 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