no RF... and no bananas ... the bad reputation of ENIG, does it not belong to history now? I used to get ENIG issues on my desk once a week, but have not heard of any problems for years. Probable cause is that they buy lots and that there is a stringent quality/process control, not only in a bunch of papers,* but in the daily routines.* Our purchaser or the component guy knows that he can't sit in his chair all day, but got to visit the board maker frequently. A ticket to Shanghai or Tokyo or like costs less than a handful of PWBs. Don't tell me that your company is a small one, then the reason for personal contacts is even more worthful. Standing still one week can be catastrophic for a small entrepeneur with only one source and only one product, while a mega one can redirigate to another plant in the country or abroad. I've heard that american electronic engineers in general are little slow when it comes to 'benchmarking' , but I do not know if it's true. //Inge On 15 September 2011 22:40, Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Ok, so we use SMT and PTH circuit boards, all are low speed (20 kHz to 50 > kHz), no BGAs, smallest parts are typically 0603, no Bluetooth, no RF, > typically 0.015 pitch. Environment might be a medical office, airport, > semiconductor fab or research lab. > > As for all the geniuses getting together to decide... I'm it. There is no > one else that has in depth knowledge of all the possible factors. I guess > I could go out to lunch and discuss it with myself over a couple of > martinis. Yum! > > Phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D. > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 3:19 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] ENIG versus LFHASL > > Regarding my previous post, I am not saying anyone should not use ENIG. You > just need to be knowledgeable in ALL surface finishes before you make a > selection. > Surface finish is not something you pull out of your hat based just on > whether the CCA is going to be lead-free, although that is definitely one of > the factors. > For example, you need to consider the type of circuitry. If it is an > analog, high RF, Bluetooth CCA for example, ENIG would be your last choice > (it may be too lossy, and if you do not understand what that means you > should not be determining the surface finish alone). > > If it is a double sided SMT CCA with BGAs on both sides, with through-hole > parts that require hand soldering, and must be processed using lead-free > solder, why then, ENIG might just be the best choice. Or it might not. In > that case, OSP is definitely not the best choice. > > Selection of finish should be left to a team of engineers who know all of > the advantages/disadvantages of each finish and understands (intimately) > his/her particular circuit design types (RF receiver/converter, digital > processor card, power supply card, D/A card, thermoswitch device, etc,) and > there are many to consider. The designer, process engineer, and quality > engineer should also be familiar with the fabrication capabilities (or > conversely, the weaknesses) of the different fabricators they have a > business relationship with, and have that in mind when selecting a finish > also. > > It is definitely NOT something a manufacturing engineer alone should decide > based solely on process type or "personal favorite". > > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D. > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 1:37 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] ENIG versus LFHASL > > In fact, Werner wrote entire papers about the possible problems with using > ENIG. Here are some; > http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1qwqg/GlobalSMTampPackagin/resources/61.htm > > http://www.trafalgar2.com/documents/Issue_Archive/global_7.3_us_opt.pdf > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Reuven Rokah > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 1:19 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] ENIG versus LFHASL > > I am in favor of LFHASL because of its robust in processes and storage > conditions. You just have to choose the right alloy in the HASL process. > > You can search in the IPC archive and read Werner recommendations, he was > favor of Immersion Silver and against ENIG because of the Ni3Sn4 IMC layer, > High thermal energy (15 degC) at reflow soldering, lnferior electrical > properties of solder joints and other reasons such solder d black pads. > > Reuven > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 8:00 PM, Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask] > >wrote: > > > Hello Technetters, > > > > We are having a discussion about the merits of both ENIG and LFHASL. > > In > > 2006 when we switch to a RoHS compliant process we evaluated many > > board finishes and decided, for our volumes, that although ENIG was > > more expensive it was more robust. LFHASL wasn't ready for prime > > time, Immersion Silver was great but required careful storage and > > handling, OSP was not something that fit our process. > > > > Now that LFHASL appears to be more main stream we are reconsidering it. > > ENIG is not always done in-house at some of our fab shops, so that > > adds time and money to the delivery. These shops now have LFHASL > > in-house, so there is a potential for some savings here. We have been > > given stories of storage issues with LFHASL and other concerns too. > > > > As I recall, the industry recommended method of storage of bare > > circuit boards is in a sealed bag with desiccant, regardless of board > finish. > > Leaving bare boards unwrapped and in an open bin is just plain bad > > practice especially if near the ocean. > > > > Several of us here think LFHASL is now right for our processes. > > > > Please advise if we are off base. > > > > Phil Nutting > > Design for Manufacturing Engineer > > Kaiser Systems, Inc. > > 126 Sohier Road > > Beverly, MA 01915 > > Phone: 978-922-9300 x1310 > > Fax: 978-922-8374 > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > www.kaisersystems.com<http://www.kaisersystems.com> > > www.linkedin.com/in/philnutting<http://www.linkedin.com/in/philnutting > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Note: All the information contained in this e-mail and its attachments > > is proprietary to Kaiser Systems, Inc. and it may not be reproduced > > without the prior written permission of sender. If you have received > > this email in error, please immediately return it to sender and delete > > the copy you received. > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > > For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or > > [log in to unmask] > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 16.0 To > > unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt > > or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing > > per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > > Search the archives of previous posts at: > > http://listserv.ipc.org/archives For additional information, or > > contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > > 847-615-7100 ext.2815 > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > -- > > Best Regards, > > *Reuven Rokah* > > Mobile: 972-52-60-120-18 > Tele-fax: 97239360688 > <http://www.rokah-technologies.com/>[log in to unmask] > [log in to unmask] > www.rokah-technologies.com > > ** > This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains > information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary of Rokah > Technologies. 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