As Nick points out, in regard to Flex, we feel we can incorporate all the pertinent 6016 requirements/characteristics into 6013, therefore, we would have no need for it once this is accomplished. As previously stated, 6016 is also over 11 years old and although some characteristics are still valid, others are not. Once 6013 and 6012 are updated to include 6016 requirements, it should be obsolete. Regards, Tom Gardeski Flex General Chair In a message dated 2/3/2011 2:21:38 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: Joey, In the flex world , 6016 is rarely called out. We follow IPC-6013 and identify HDI specific issues in the procurement documentation. I have been leading an update of IPC-6013 to incorporate HDI characteristics and effectively obsolete 6016. We are working with the IPC-6012 committee as well to have a consistent transition of HDI attributes into both specs. Once done, we can put the 6016 spec to rest. I agree with Scott that IPC-6016 is not very relevant anymore. Regards, Nick Nick Koop Minco Products, Inc Flex Circuits Product Marketing Manager Ph 763 586-2846 Mobile 763 245-4825 >>> Scott Bowles <[log in to unmask]> 2/3/2011 2:09 PM >>> Joey, Some like to go with what fits their need at the time and will use "implied" even stating that IPC-6016 "should" be invoked any time a design has microvias even if 6016 isn't referenced at all in the procurement documentation. The bottom line is that the board fabricators are required to build to the requirements of the procurement documentation. We should be putting pressure on IPC to obsolete IPC-6016 and add any necessary "HDI" requirements into the next revision of IPC-6012. IPC-6016 is over 11 years old and in my opinion there is no real need for a separate document. FYI, 6016 does have the requirement for 5x thermal stress cycles (unless limited by the number of stress cycles acceptable for the core board - whatever that is supposed to mean). Best regards, Scott A. Bowles Director of Engineering and Quality Hallmark Circuits, Inc. 13500 Danielson Street Poway, CA 92064 858 513-2200 Office x8848 858 513-2233 Fax 858 437-7827 Cell Notice: This e-mail is intended solely for use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader is not the intended recipient or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. This communication may also contain data subject to U.S. export laws. If so, that data subject to the International Traffic in Arms Regulation cannot be disseminated, distributed or copied to foreign nationals, residing in the U.S. or abroad, absent the express prior approval of the U.S. Department of State. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy the e-mail message and any physical copies made of the communication. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: IPC-600-6012 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jose A Rios Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 9:55 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [IPC-600-6012] 6012 & 6016 6012C section 1.2, item 3 implies that 6016 always applies to rigid boards containing HDI features. We see designs with HDI features with mixed callouts: some 6012 only, others 6012 & 6016. Are both callouts to be treated equally?? I believe so, but I'd like to see how others interpret the above. Joey Rios PWB & Process Quality Eng'r Endicott Interconnect Technologies 1093 Clark St. Endicott, NY 13760 Office: 607-755-5896 ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________