Totally agree. -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Ramsey [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:16 AM To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN] Hand Soldering "Supported by Test Data" Some key features of the Standard and the appendix have heritage from the use of rosin flux and abandoned Mil Standards. These have produced commonly held and occasionally erroneous conclusions. Another thread here discusses "funded custodians". Who are the funded custodians now? How are they qualified to shape the standards? What are the implications? We, the staff at R&D, have experience with materials that pass J-standards and TM-650 tests to be classified REL0. These materials perform very well in certain service environments. However, they do not behave like Rosin. So, in other service environments they do not perform as well as one might expect, some might consider it poor performance. In the end, the user of the flux must understand the material properties, and as needed, communicate same to the end user. I have concluded, perhaps unfairly, that the J-STD classifications and the TM-650 tests may not reveal these important material properties. Leaving the manufacturing engineer with a false sense of security and confidence. What are the properties of the raw flux? What are the properties of the processed flux? What is "processed" flux? What are the properties of the flux after an attempt to remove the residue? What are the properties of the flux after exposure to a humid service environment (which BTW is quite unlike a clean environmental chamber)? What are the properties of the flux after exposure to a condensing environment? I submit that the TMs attempt methodize answers some of the above, while others are not addressed. In short all L0 fluxes are not going to perform equally in all service environments. This complex issue confounded committee efforts to provide a simple answer. Guy -----Original Message----- From: Robert DeQuattro [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 4:10 PM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Guy Ramsey Subject: RE: [TN] Hand Soldering With regard to industry standards, J-std-001 D (in transition to E), 3.3, provides some guidance on the use of flux, particularly for Class 3. Also, J-std-004 B provides greater information. It appears that the big issues with flux are related to their corrosive and conductive properties, and ultimately determine the extent of cleaning required. Ideally all supported by test data. Bob -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Guy Ramsey Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:03 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Hand Soldering We use water soluble fluxes exclusively. But, I beg to differ. One must be very fussy. It is not a messy process, but, it much easier to have the result look very good and still bite you with latent defects. For solder training, absolutely. No mess no fuss. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D. Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 2:24 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Hand Soldering I totally agree! -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda Langley Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 11:15 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Hand Soldering Ken, Go with water soluble, hot water rinse, no mess no fuss!! Linda Langley CIT Training Specialist Jabil Circuit 248-292-6176 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Wood Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:30 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Hand Soldering Hi all. What is the best setup for hand soldering as far as solder / cleaner? Rosin core? Water soluble? No-Clean? What cleaner too? I've been using rosin core with various cleaners but I have a hard time with the white residue the cleaners leave. Thanks Ken ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. 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