I've seen it happen with regular PBGAs with no heat spreader too. Warpage severe enough to squash the center thermal balls, shorting them together, and turning the corner joints into cylindrical columns. Scott Post P.O.U. 0000-001E-0CTC 2151 E. Lincoln Road Kokomo, Indiana 46904-9005 765-451-2983 (Phone) 765-451-0287 (FAX) ________________________________ From: Werner Engelmaier [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 11:06 AM To: [log in to unmask]; Post, Scott E Subject: Re: [TN] PAGODERING OR SMILING Hi Scott, The BGAs that warp are primarily the SBGAs, that have a built-in Cu heat spreader, which makes them thermally unbalanced. Werner -----Original Message----- From: Post, Scott E <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 9:56 am Subject: Re: [TN] PAGODERING OR SMILING Never heard the term before but, yes, I've seen BGAs with severe warp after reflow. In the cases I've seen "excessive heat" wasn't the issue. The parts simply warped during normal reflow temperatures, often causing ball-in-cup (or head in pillow, whatever you want to call it). I've spent way too much time doing Thermoire simulating reflow for this issue. If you're seeing the warp locked in after reflow then something in the BGA suppliers materials or processes is the root cause. Scott Post P.O.U. 0000-001E-0CTC 2151 E. Lincoln Road Kokomo, Indiana 46904-9005 765-451-2983 (Phone) 765-451-0287 (FAX) -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] On Behalf Of Christopher Young Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 9:00 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PAGODERING OR SMILING Basically its where BGA plastic packaged components are subjected to excess heat and lift at either end hence the term smiling, it lifts at either end. Would like to know if anyone else has experienced this and what tips anyone can offer to overcome this. Also what devices are prone to this. Thanks Chris -----Original Message----- From: Dean Stadem [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] Sent: 05 March 2010 13:55 To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; Christopher Young Cc: 'Steve Gregory' Subject: RE: [TN] PAGODERING OR SMILING Chris, Send a picture to Steve Gregory at [log in to unmask], and he will post it so we can see what it is you are speaking of. I have never heard the term before. R. Dean Stadem Consulting Engineer Analog Technologies Corp./Lumagine, Inc. 11441 Rupp Drive Burnsville, MN 55431 (952)894-9228 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] On Behalf Of Christopher Young Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 2:47 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PAGODERING OR SMILING Could someone advise on what you can do if you have pagodering or smiling on components and which ones / types are suspect. Chris -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis Sent: 05 March 2010 06:55 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coat Over No-Clean Flux 25 or so years ago, Wally's (Rubin) Wonder Flux (Multicore Xersin), which was claimed to be inert after soldering, had a CC variant that could be applied over the residues. I never tested it, mainly because WWF was not really the best flux in the world for oxidised leads. Theooretically, it sounds as if it may do the job. Brian Ken Bloomquist wrote: > We have a twelve leaded, through-hole component that has to be hand soldered > on the circuit board. The assembly gets conformal coated with urethane. We > would like to hand solder these twelve leads using no-clean and then > conformal coat the board. The component would be added as a final step after > the assembly has first been cleaned. > > Since this is not a "total no-clean" process do you see any issues applying > conformal coat over these twelve no-clean solder joints? > > Best regards, > > KennyB > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] > ______________________________________________________________________ > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To > unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt > or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 > ----------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- The information contained within this e-mail and any files attached to this e-mail is private and in addition may include commercially sensitive information. The contents of this e-mail are for the intended recipient only and therefore if you wish to disclose the information contained within this e-mail or attached files, please contact the sender prior to any such disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or distribution is prohibited. Please also contact the sender and inform them of the error and delete the e-mail, including any attached files from your system. EADS Defence and Security Systems Limited Registered Office : Quadrant House, Celtic Springs, Coedkernew, Newport , NP10 8FZ Company No: 04191036 http://www.eadsdsuk.com The information contained within this e-mail and any files attached to this e-mail is private and in addition may include commercially sensitive information. The contents of this e-mail are for the intended recipient only and therefore if you wish to disclose the information contained within this e-mail or attached files, please contact the sender prior to any such disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or distribution is prohibited. Please also contact the sender and inform them of the error and delete the e-mail, including any attached files from your system. EADS Defence and Security Systems Limited Registered Office : Quadrant House, Celtic Springs, Coedkernew, Newport , NP10 8FZ Company No: 04191036 http://www.eadsdsuk.com ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- The information contained within this e-mail and any files attached to this e-mail is private and in addition may include commercially sensitive information. The contents of this e-mail are for the intended recipient only and therefore if you wish to disclose the information contained within this e-mail or attached files, please contact the sender prior to any such disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or distribution is prohibited. Please also contact the sender and inform them of the error and delete the e-mail, including any attached files from your system. EADS Defence and Security Systems Limited Registered Office : Quadrant House, Celtic Springs, Coedkernew, Newport , NP10 8FZ Company No: 04191036 http://www.eadsdsuk.com The information contained within this e-mail and any files attached to this e-mail is private and in addition may include commercially sensitive information. The contents of this e-mail are for the intended recipient only and therefore if you wish to disclose the information contained within this e-mail or attached files, please contact the sender prior to any such disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or distribution is prohibited. Please also contact the sender and inform them of the error and delete the e-mail, including any attached files from your system. EADS Defence and Security Systems Limited Registered Office : Quadrant House, Celtic Springs, Coedkernew, Newport , NP10 8FZ Company No: 04191036 http://www.eadsdsuk.com ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- ************************************************************************ **************** Note: If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ************************************************************************ **************** ************************************************************************ **************** Note: If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ************************************************************************ **************** ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- ************************************************************************ **************** Note: If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ************************************************************************ **************** **************************************************************************************** Note: If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. **************************************************************************************** ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------