It proven that not enough of mountain drew in the local supply chain can lower the blood pressure. The effectiveness of drew is limited when in contact with fungus. -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Mon Mar 15 06:45:10 2010 Subject: Re: [TN] fungus question I would like to nominate this rant for the "Post of the Year Award"... Kudos Doug! regards, - Graham Collins -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 6:15 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] fungus question Ohhhhh, I beg to differ. Well, not actually beg, I have some pride. At the box level, I may (and usually do) have all of my assemblies coated with a conformal coating that places a barrier between an external fungus and my component. Now, if I am using a MIL-I-46058 qualified coating, which I do, I know that this is fungus resistant, or at least non-nutrient because that is part of the qualification procedure. Which means, that if I have a box level qualification needing fungus resistant, I don't have to worry about component level fungus resistance IF I conformally coat. What about if the designer does not want to use conformal coating? Foolish, but it happens. Then we have to go back down to the component level for fungus resistance. I would agree with your qual person in that I have not seen fungus eat a modern component. I think this is a holdover from the era of the dinosaurs. But my technical opinions may mean nothing when I have a customer asking me why a requirement was not met, real or imagined. Perhaps you have better suppliers than I do but the vast majority of our component vendors are silent on fungus resistance. Its not on the data sheets. Very seldom is that test ever done on component materials (I checked with some of my lab friends), so if they are certifying as fungus resistance on faith. Hallelujah, praise the Lord. It is an expensive test that needs qualified people to run it. Ask your local independent lab what it cost to handle biologically active materials. Then be thankful you ain't them. I really love how this cost avoidance or cost transferrence system works. The big customer does not want to tackle the issue, so they put it in the system requirements to us. The program manager does not want to pay for the testing, so they try to do "qualification by analysis", which is a fancy way of saying a SWAG. So they pass the buck to the cognizant design engineer. The cognizant design engineer is usually a mechanical or electrical engineer, and what do they know about microbes. So it gets passed down to our component application engineers. They don't really want to pay for the testing, so they push back to the component vendors. We regularly beat the hell out of component vendors, standing in righteous indication when they claim we have beat all the profit out of the system. What?!! The Joy of dealing with our Corporation is not enough for you?!!!! Some People. Since the component people don't regularly do this test, would be happy to do it for us, for a nominal fee. Which is passed to the application engineer, to the cognizant design engineer, to the program manager, who does not want to pay for it. And in the grand scramble, the question goes unanswered, but everyone feels good because they pursued the question. How the hell did I get up on this stump? Doug Pauls "Kane, Joseph E (US SSA)" <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 03/11/2010 03:34 PM Please respond to TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to "Kane, Joseph E (US SSA)" <[log in to unmask]> To [log in to unmask] cc Subject Re: [TN] fungus question Wewease Dougwas. If fungus testing is done at box level as part of qual (which I think is typical), then it will necessarily check for both cases 1 and 2 that you describe. I checked with our qual guy, and he never of fungus growing on a plastic part. But he thinks that component manufacturers typically specify plastic that is certified non-nutrient. -Joe -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:02 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] fungus question Inge, I am too Norwegian to be Roman. Though it did bring to mind a sketch from Monty Python's Life of Brian. I asked the question originally because many of our government contracts and purchase orders, call out requirements, often from similar purchase orders from 5 years before, which were based on templates from 5 years before that, based on military standards last updated 5 years before that. You may have a requirement chain that leads back to something like MIL-STD-454. There are two subtle differences to the fungus resistance question: (1) do the materials of construction contain items which a fungus would view as a food or nutrient; and (2) what is the effect of fungus growth on components would be when a nutrient material, such as Mt Dew, is spilled on it. The first question relates to components as they come into our facility, the second is usually done on top level units as part of our functional qualification. Doug Pauls "Inge" <[log in to unmask]> 03/11/2010 09:34 AM Please respond to "Inge" <[log in to unmask]> To <[log in to unmask]>, <[log in to unmask]> cc Subject Re: [TN] fungus question Paulus Douglus, I see it in two ways. Generally spoken, you are right. Not many fun guys become fungus today. However, another aspect is this one: equipments are exposed to all sorts of environments, especially MILs, and all that spoky stuff that covers the electronic components can be broken down into all kind of unhealthy compounds, which can attack the 'plastics'. So, the basic meaning with the tests is probably to see that the component in itself does not generate fungus, but there should be a second aspect, which points at what I said above. Then comes the question: what do we mean with fungus. If we can harvest golden sepps for the evening meal, there is no doubt, but what about countless and nameless micro things. I have myself seen both metals and plastics covered by thin veils, which revealed millions of spectacular micro sized things that we could not name. Looked like mycellum or mykorrhiza. That the 'things' were micron sized does not necessarily mean that they are harmless. When I inspect units from different parts of the world, I can meet spiders, geckos, strange beatles and also strange coverings, sorts of. We don't do fungus testing, noone will pay for it, think that's the situation for the majority. Why do you ask? Maybe because of a fan guy? Inge -------------------------------------------------- From: "Douglas Pauls" <[log in to unmask]> Sent: den 10 March 2010 06:51 To: <[log in to unmask]> Subject: [TN] fungus question > Good morning all, > > Do any of you know whether electronic components are still tested for > fungus resistance? Since most components are molded plastic made from > synthetic or petroleum-based materials, and therefore non-nutrient, I > suspect that this kind of testing is no longer done, unless required to by > a customer. > > Thanks. > > Doug Pauls > Rockwell Collins > > Diet Dew > Diet Dew > Diet Dew > (gotta get the hits back up) > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] > ______________________________________________________________________ > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-615-7100 ext.2815 > ----------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. 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