Toilet plungers and RoHS actually have a lot in common............ John Burke (408) 515 4992 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Genny Gibbard Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:06 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS burden I'm still not sure if that relates to Inge's original question, but more rather to what Richard was talking about testing every batch received. If you are preparing a material declaration report for an entire product (something that has taken me up to 6 months to compile, even when I am not doing my own testing but relying on material declarations submitted by manufacturers), with hundreds or thousands of parts on it, and you use 5 different values of the exact same resistor series from the same manufacturer, (for quibbling we'll say they are all ERJ-2RKF series resistors from Panasonic, values of 1K, 10K, 100 ohm, and 2K2) would you get samples tested of every value and have a completely separate material breakdown report for each value within a series? Or would you use the material declaration format that Panasonic provided where the report is for ERJ-2RKF@@@@X, where the @@@@ is the value? The total mass of the part is 0.65 mg. The report gives chemical masses to 6 decimal points of a mg. The resistive element itself is .005879 mg. How much are these values going to change from value to value within a series? In my mind, this is a completely separate activity from the testing done on a batch by batch basis to make sure that the critical plating parameters of each batch of a product still meets spec. Or would you completely retest all parts for all materials and re-write the complete material declaration for each batch of a product? I can see redoing it if any supplier or component changes, but just updating that supplier or component, not completely retesting and rewriting the report for all unchanged components as well. I am starting to realize why governments can spend 5 million on a toilet plunger. I don't think I have the patience to manufacture products for the military. Genny -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lee Whiteman Sent: December 15, 2009 8:37 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS burden Amplifying What Richard and Denny have said, you might include NASA as well. NASA has prohibited pure Tin, Cadmium, and Zinc from their hardware. Exemptions are on a program by program basis. Lee Whiteman, PMP Senior Member Engineering Staff L-3 Communications East Telephone: (856) 338-3508 FAX: (856) 338-2906 E-Mail: [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D. Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:17 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] [spam] Re: [TN] RoHS burden Denny, you are absolutely correct. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dennis Fritz Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:36 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] [spam] Re: [TN] RoHS burden Genny - Because if you supply to the US Dept of Defense to the component "lead" spec that says "at least 3% lead in the component plating", and you ship pure tin plate, you are guilty of contract fraud. YOU ARE NOT MEETING THE SPEC YOU AGREE TO SUPPLY TO. I don't care if the parts were bid at 1Cent or 1 dollar, part selling price has nothing to do with contract compliance. Agreed, an awfully lot of DoD parts are sold to a print requirment (50 ohms) which may not call out the plating composition requirement, or you may know that Defense Logistics Agency has no way to track lot certification, but you are still guilty of fraud. Denny Fritz -----Original Message----- From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 10:46 am Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS burden I'm sorry, but wasn't the original question regarding requirements like esting every value in a series for a material content breakdown? am not talking screening every order, where you may catch bad batches hat don't meet the spec stated, but rather, reporting what the actual xpected material content is for a part series like an 0603 5% thick ilm resistor. ould a 51 ohm resistor really have any different measurable material ontent from a 75 ohm, or a 1K ohm, for that matter, if all of them were rom the exact same manufacturer, and same resistor series datasheet? here are thousands of values. How can we really expect the resistor ompany to provide individual breakdowns/test results for each of 1000's f values of a part they are selling for .01 cent each? Genny -----Original Message----- rom: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D. ent: December 14, 2009 5:47 AM o: [log in to unmask] ubject: Re: [TN] RoHS burden Oh, yes. Absolutely a requirement. We do this on every LOT of omponents. You need to do this to ensure there are no Sn99 or old-finished parts that would require tinning in order to prevent tin hisker issues in high rel applications, especially for space and viation. The finish described on the component print is not the actual inish on about 5-8% of all components received, even when there are tringent clauses in the purchase order. It is too bad that the omponent industry is so far out of control. We also get class 5a MSDs hat are not labeled as such, etc. We run that XRF at least 8 hours per ay. For those parts we know we cannot get in the desired finish, we use robotic tinning cell made for us by V-Tek. This is truly an amazing achine, extremely versatile. We can tin right up to the component body ithout hurting the components, because the immersion point, immersion peed, and immersion dwell can be very precisely programmed such that we et 100% tin/lead coating over the entire termination, not just the part o be soldered. -----Original Message----- rom: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge ent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 3:16 AM o: [log in to unmask] ubject: [TN] RoHS burden Hi all, ave not had time to take part of the discussions for a while. Am onsulting at another company. They needed help with doing analysis of omponents. oeing is incorporated. I got a list of forbidden materials from them. ot many can cope with Boeing's requirements. Only a few in whole urope! Now, I've a question. Has anyone of you been involved in such ough demands, namely this one...not only they call for checking the inish of every component type, but all values (!!) within each omponent family. That means, that one sample from EVERY resistor value ust be analyzed and reported to Boeing. An incredible job list. Does his make sense? Inge --------------------------------------------------- echnet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To nsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in he BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET echnet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the osts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the rchives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please isit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for dditional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 47-615-7100 ext.2815 ---------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- echnet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 o unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in he BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF 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