Steven, Rudy, Thanks for your support. There should fall no shadow on Zestron, they've helped us out with different tests, we've just not find a solution, yet... At my previous employer we didn't clean before coating so I'm fairly new to these kinds of problems. Unfortunately the problem seems to have no correlation to humidity changes over the year, we see this regardless of season. The pH we don't measure, Zestron has told us that it's not the correct way of maintaining the bath concentration. I will test with a solution I made two weeks ago. It might have absorbed enough co2 to function well. Also I'll start to measure pH with fresh, old and 50% fresh solution to see if there is any difference. Thanks again. // Fredrik -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven Creswick Sent: den 18 augusti 2009 15:24 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning a little too much... Fredrik, I wished to lend a bit of moral support and ask a question or two. I've always found that Zestron-US was quick to help me out if I had a problem - unpaid plug for them You said the problem surfaced last Summer. Did the problem go away again last Winter? Over the years, I've run into many situations where outside humidity appears to have a reasonably strong correlation to problems within a 'temp/humidity controlled' environment - my belief is that it is because some of the raw materials [solvents for example] are not stored in as good of a temp/humidity controlled environment. If the problem comes and goes, I would start by pulling a roll of the label stock and the ribbon into a dessicant chamber to dry out, while placing another pair into a known moist environment - and compare the results from both. Is the pH of the bath changing with respect to time? There is likely not much to be gained, but you might run an FTIR - IR Spectra on the old and new ribbon to verify relative proportion of constituents and confirm there were no new components [and no missing components]. Just have them dissolve in acetone, or something, and do a comparative scan. The label material itself - can you do a wetting angle test on the old and new labels to see if there is anything significant with respect to how well the ink may adhere in the first place? Do you see differences with something simple like a Scotch tape test on the printed ink, before solvent exposure? I am sure that you have been over the equipment looking for thermal and pressure differences. Sorry I can not be of direct asssistance Steve C --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- Important: This email transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------