Hi Anil Interesting observation. I'd have to agree that there is a "stream of consciousness" aspect to the dialog that James Joyce would have likely appreciated but wading (slogging?) through Ulysses again is something I am not sure I could do. Once to the top Everest is enough... ;-) Good luck with it. Cheers, Joe In a message dated 8/5/2009 12:06:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes: This exciting interchange Quote Yap. Sit, wait, fire US with high power. Not something nice to have. Too much dumping."JK" "Wild!!! Steve" Unquote reminded me of the original Joyce - J.K writes close to James - enigmas and puzzles for non bonders like me. And Stephen is taken up with the Joycean dream. Ulyses part 2. Thanks folks fr the awakening. I am going to read it again. Imagine - TN spinning off to heavy lit - Anil -----Original Message----- From: Steven Creswick [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 22:40 Subject: Re: Wire bond Let me know of you hear of one [non-bean counter] in my area! -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 12:59 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond Not work for a bean counter is a big advantage to prolong life. -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wed Aug 05 10:18:45 2009 Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond And that's why I hired Joyce. Bev RIM ----- Original Message ----- From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wed Aug 05 10:11:14 2009 Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond Joyce, The 'law of bean-counters' is the same all over too. I would like to see them work around the problem and come up with a viable & reliable solution! They also don't always understand the old adage - "garbage in-garbage out", thinking that cheapest is always best. I guess in some ways that applies to employment as well. Seems like many firms nowadays opt for the cheap, inexperienced individuals and disregard the experienced ones [excluding Steve Gregory]. I find that one usually gets what you pay for... Experience doesn't always come from a book, or a forum [although it can certainly help!]. Some of the greatest, most valuable learning experiences are those hardest learned. I'm sure we can each relate to that. It seems silly not to pass knowledge along [unless it is proprietary, etc]. Why waste energy/time/$ when we could bump ourselves up to the next level of creativity/productivity/technology... Steve C -----Original Message----- From: Joyce Koo [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:53 AM To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond Good to know the law of physics didn't change across the boarder. Thx to confirm the method. Bean counter didn't like it, take few micro second longer per bond. Impact on throughput. Of course, the bean counter never bond a single wire in his life. -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wed Aug 05 08:12:29 2009 Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond Joyce, Exactly!! You've learned the hard way too! Took me a while to figure it out, but it is something I've never forgotten! Very similar to bonding a MEMs device, attached with RTV. Wild!!! Steve -----Original Message----- From: Joyce Koo [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 9:40 PM To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond Yap. Sit, wait, fire US with high power. Not something nice to have. Too much dumping. -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tue Aug 04 19:05:16 2009 Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond Joyce, Even an acrylic PSA can get a little squishy at thermosonic temps. Have you had to deal with stiffeners attached with silicone in the past? Steve -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:48 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond Attached with silicone? -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Kelly Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 1:55 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond Hi Inge - flex? - 18 micron copper on adhesiveless kapton - stiffener underneath. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge Sent: August-04-09 1:52 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond Ceramic : No FR-4 : No LTCC: No Glass: No Steel: No Teflon: Yes /Inge ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Kelly" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:36 PM Subject: [TN] Wire bond Good Morning, Does the size of a wire bond pad (in this case with a perfect etch .002 wide) have any effect on whether the wire bonder does Al wedge or Thermosonic gold( I know the gold plating is different) - just asking about the process. Thanks. 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