The 8D sequence: 1 Forming a team is easy without the board. 2 Describing the problem in measureable terms may be possible with a very good x-ray, CAD and a good team. 3 Short term actions to protect the customer almost requires B from your post, not for failure analysis but to protect the customer, unless there is some reason to believe that this could only happen once. 4 Defining the Root Cause is going to be compromised by not having the defect in hand. But, may be possible given a good team, a little luck and a very good x-ray. If no luck, poor x-ray, and defect not available, I would consider the trail cold and end the action with a statement to that effect and proceed to step 8. 5 Verification can be done if step 4 is successful 6 Implementation is always a hassle anyway. 7 Prevention is harder than implementation, we rarely have time to stay focused on something we think we fixed. We have other fires to fight. 8 This step can be accomplished even if we have in sufficient information to proceed with steps 5, 6 and 7. I agree with Marsal's post don't hide from the problem. Follow the process with the best information you have. There is always an information wall. Sometimes is stops the process, sometimes we simply make a leap of faith over it. Guy -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of bob wettermann Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:00 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Determining Root Cause Dear Technetters: Here's a situation where your opinions would be helpful: Assume your company have shipped a PWB to a customer and the customer determines a functional failure and via XRAY determines that there was problem via a solder short. As the builder you review the XRAY image and you confirm that it is indeed a short. The customer asks you for an 8D analysis. You politely request that the board be returned so that you can ask the 5 "Whys" or generate an "Ishikawa diagram" or a get to a root cause. Upon asking this question the customer indicates that the board is no longer available. Do you: A. Tel the customer that without the actual board (1 out of a lot size of 25) the root cause analysis is not possible and you cannot perfom an 8D B. Ask for the balance of the lot back to see and begin the root analysis and trust that you can actually get to a root cause C. Guess at a root cause D. Do not answer your phone Regards Bob Wettermann PH 847-767-5745 --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------