Hi Dave, You obviously have had more luck with that :-), as I've never been able to see any reliable echos from if a PWB has fibers and it's not just double sided. I'd appreciate if you can share the "tricks" you used. Vladimir ________________________________ From: [log in to unmask] To: TechNet E-Mail Forum ; Igoshev, Vladimir Cc: [log in to unmask] Sent: Fri Jan 02 12:11:26 2009 Subject: Re: [TN] PWB Delamination Detection by C-SAM Hi Vlad - well, the correct answer would be "it depends" (man, Sir Doug is getting Mt. Dew royalties even during the holidays!). I agree with Syed, you can use C SAM to locate and characterize PWB delamination with the selection of proper frequencies and transducers. However, you are correct in that not all PWB delaminations can be analyzed due to the PWB construction details of some PWBS. Thicker PWBs with multiple internal layers due cause reflections that make a delamination analysis impossible. I have successfully used the C-SAM methodology many times to characterize PWB delamination but as with all analysis technologies, there are limits. Happy Holidays Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] "Igoshev, Vladimir" <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 01/02/2009 10:39 AM Please respond to TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to "Igoshev, Vladimir" <[log in to unmask]> To [log in to unmask] cc Subject Re: [TN] PWB Delamination Detection by C-SAM Well, I don't think so. the higher frequency ones are used for a component analysis/imaging as the signal won't go deep and will dissipate from any interface. With all the fibers in a PCB, reflection mode will show feww too many peaks/echos. Regards, Vladimir ----- Original Message ----- From: Syed Ahmad <[log in to unmask]> To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum' <[log in to unmask]>; Igoshev, Vladimir Sent: Fri Jan 02 11:06:21 2009 Subject: RE: [TN] PWB Delamination Detection by C-SAM With higher frequencies and reflection, exact location within layers could be determined. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Igoshev, Vladimir Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 8:21 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PWB Delamination Detection by C-SAM Unless it's so thick that no signal will go through it should work. That is why a low frequency trancducer is used and that is why it should be a through mode - it won't tell where (which layers) but the location (X:Y) Vladimir ----- Original Message ----- From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Igoshev, Vladimir Sent: Fri Jan 02 09:14:24 2009 Subject: RE: [TN] PWB Delamination Detection by C-SAM But won't it depend on how thick the board is - how many layers? If it is a really thick one and the delam is in the middle... Bev -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Igoshev, Vladimir Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:13 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PWB Delamination Detection by C-SAM Hi Victor, Through scan with a low frequency (30 or 15) transducer should be able to do it. Regards, Vladimir ----- Original Message ----- From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Fri Jan 02 09:09:57 2009 Subject: [TN] PWB Delamination Detection by C-SAM Fellow TechNetters: Searching for supporting information on non destructive analysis with C-SAM to confirm raw board delamination. Victor, --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.