I once worked in a facility that was built on poured cement on grade. We monitored floor conductivity and found it was always below the threshold recommended in 20.20, between 10 meg and 1 gig. We still provided grounded ESD save workstations, but we did not worry about the floor beyond sweeping daily. Then we decided that appearance was important. We put down tiles and began waxing. Then our ESD troubles began, real ones, damaged parts real. In my opinion the ESD people are not only selling something he can't afford, if cleanliness isn't an issue, they are selling something he does not need. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven Creswick Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:39 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] ESD Flooring - bare concrete Dewey, I think I understand your response, but the question still remains - is a bare [untreated with anything] concrete floor [without mats to trip over] able to minimize charge build-up? His parts are crude, and pretty macroscopic by our standards. His objective is crude, and he needs it low cost, but reasonably safe for people and product. I know if one were to do it the way we normally would, I would coat the floor, or put down ESD tiles and call it quits. He is on less than a shoestring budget, trying to make do as best as he can. The ESD people want to sell him mats and treatments that he can not afford. Hence the question Steve -----Original Message----- From: Whittaker, Dewey (EHCOE) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:26 AM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Steven Creswick Subject: RE: [TN] ESD Flooring - bare concrete Obvious is a treated concrete floor with an ESD safe coating. The downside is maintenance and cleaning. Large ESD mats may be better with dedicated ESD safe work areas. Dewey -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven Creswick Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 8:13 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] ESD Flooring - bare concrete Brian - Joyce, This is HEAVY equipment [ie - dirty, filthy, grimy]. I have very little concern about dirt and dust - just ESD suitability. Any comments on suitability of the bare concrete floor to mitigate charge build-up and/or transfer? Steve -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 6:39 AM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Steven Creswick Subject: Re: [TN] ESD Flooring - bare concrete Dust? Brian Steven Creswick wrote: > Techies, > > > > My first Friday, pseudo-technical question - I have an acquaintance that is > repairing pretty crude PWB assemblies used in the trucking industry and > needs to re-locate to gain more room. He certainly does not require > clean-room conditions. > > > > My thought was that a bare concrete floor - free of oils and greases, epoxy > coatings, etc. - would work out ok for flooring. If he had carts, he could > attach small brass chains, etc. > > > > Was also thinking that the floor would give up moisture in the Winter and > absorb it during the Summer and thereby help buffer humidity swings. > > > > He still would require ESD work-stations. > > > > What say the more ESD gurus? > > > Steve > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To > unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt > or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 > ----------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------