Hi Grunde, No, they are not tightened up--there are more slash sheets to loosen some of the parameters which also occurred between the draft for B and the final version. Werner -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Werner engelmaier <[log in to unmask]> Cc: [log in to unmask] Sent: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 1:45 am Subject: Re: [TN] Fwd: Draft for IPC-4101C Does anybody know if the parameters for td, ctez and moisture absorbtion will be tightened up in the new edition? In the B revision these parameters very much on the conservative for the "RoHS compliant" materials, in my opinion the gap between actual parameters for the materials and 4101B is now too large. Best regards Grunde Werner engelmaier <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 04.12.2008 00:12 Please respond to TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Werner engelmaier <[log in to unmask]> To [log in to unmask] cc Subject [TN] Fwd: Draft for IPC-4101C ?Guys & Gals, Doug Sober wrote: "I admit that we promised you consideration for the C Revision.? We do need some testimonials for people that feel that it has value. For sure your recipe makes sense and it does provide a guide to lead-free assembly compatibility, however the materials picked by this method are normally the higher Tg, higher priced and more specialized FR-4.? Customers cannot always purchase specification sheet 126 materials. But I would be willing to listen to the testimonials. ?It is not going to happen for this revision however. Doug" Keep those 'testimonials' coming. I guess we do technology by democratic principles. Of course, you do not need /126 for most applications. My take on the 12 keyworded: "Lead-free-FR-4" slash-sheet material groups in the C-rev is as follows: For Rev. C (Final Draft) /126, /129, /130 and /131 are fully compatible with /126 and /130 being the best choices because of their lower CTE(z), and /99, /124, /125 and /128 limited; the others [/101, /121, /122, /127] keyworded: "Lead-free-FR-4' may be problematic with LF-soldering temperatures. Just for reference, for Rev. B, /126 and /129 are fully compatible, /99 and /124 to a more limited extent. You should have an easily-applied tool to pre-select materials likely meeting your needs. Regards, Werner Engelmaier Engelmaier Associates, L.C. Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting 7 Jasmine Run Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA Phone: 386-437-8747, Cell: 386-316-5904 E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com -----Original Message----- From: Sober, Doug <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask] Cc: [log in to unmask]; tony senese <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 4:14 pm Subject: RE: Draft for IPC-4101C Werner, ? I admit that we promised you consideration for the C Revision.? We do need some testimonials for people that feel that it has value. ? For sure your recipe makes sense and it does provide a guide to lead-free assembly compatibility, however the materials picked by this method are normally the higher Tg, higher priced and more specialized FR-4.? ? Customers cannot always purchase specification sheet 126 materials. ? But I would be willing to listen to the testimonials. ?It is not going to happen for this revision however. ? Doug ? From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:32 PM To: [log in to unmask] Cc: Sober, Doug; [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Draft for IPC-4101C ? Hi Tom, I am rather disappointed to find that the STII-concept has not been included in this draft. I was promised that the concept would get serious consideration and be included in the C-revision 'if appropriate'. Over 2 years have passed since I withdrew my NEGATIVE on the B-revision, and from what I can tell from the meeting minutes absolutely nothing has been done by the committee in this regard. The STII-concept has found favorable interest by users both in the USA and Europe, with some interest expressed in Asia as well. Its effectiveness is clearly evident, it does not take anything away from any of the materials, it makes selection for suitability much easier, and it combines the impact of the major parameters affecting PCB survival/reliability. So, clearly, the STII-concept is appropriate. As this draft stands, it will receive a NEGATIVE from me. Regards, Werner Engelmaier Engelmaier Associates, L.C. Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting 7 Jasmine Run Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA Phone: 386-437-8747, Cell: 386-316-5904 E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The information contained in this electronic mail message, including any attachments, is confidential and is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2522. 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