Hi Grunde, Tombstoning is only a problem if you use soldering pads designed for wave soldering—these are definitely suboptimum for reflow and wave soldering. Werner -----Original Message----- From: Grunde Gjertsen <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 1:29 am Subject: Re: [TN] FW: [LF] Vapor Phase Soldering Apart from tombstoning that is in my experience much worse than with convection. Another thing with VP, how do you document your temperature profile? Grunde "Stadem, Richard D." <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 15.10.2008 17:51 Please respond to TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to "Stadem, Richard D." <[log in to unmask]> To [log in to unmask] cc Subject Re: [TN] FW: [LF] Vapor Phase Soldering I should also opine that when soldering RoHS-compliant assemblies using lead-free solder paste, you will probably get a much better yield with VPS than you ever will with convection. Especially in the case of SAC solders. There, I said it. Listen to the screams..... -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D. Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:38 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] FW: [LF] Vapor Phase Soldering -----Original Message----- From: Stadem, Richard D. Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:34 AM To: '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)'; 'Tony Ingano' Subject: RE: [LF] Vapor Phase Soldering VP soldering is great for reflow of massive or hard-to-solder assemblies or when doing certain subassembly processes (socket manufacturing, etc.) They are an invaluable tool in any manufacturing facility. There are no process drawbacks with using the modern VPS machines, better preheaters and sumps fixed the issues of thermal shock and excessive vapor fluid use. 3M's Fluorinert and Galden PFPE fluids are safe to use from an environmental standpoint, per our PCA state offices. You must recognize that VPS requires some amount of thermal shock in order to facilitate the condensation action, but it is not usually so large as to hurt the reliability of most standard SMT components. There may be some heat-sensitive components that you would not want to solder with VPS, however. You need to do the homework before jumping in and running production hardware with VP. Homework is spelled q-u-a-l-i-f-i-c-a-t-i-o-n, which should include thermal cycling. But we get a lower DPMO when using VPS than we do with convection reflow ovens. Better, more uniform heat transfer = better solder wetting. I have used R&D Technical Services machines, Model RD1 and RD2, and they have worked extremely well for the companies that I work with. Find them at: http://www.rdtechnicalservices.com/index.html Disadvantages are the cost of the fluids, and the machines require more cleaning (maintenance) due to the amounts of flux contamination on the insides of the chamber from the vapor. We have our maintenance people thoroughly clean them each month as a means of preventing=2 0oxidation of the internal chamber parts. We use two temperatures of fluid, depending on the application. I am still waiting for Galden and 3M to get schmart and provide the different fluid tempertures in different colors so it is easier to avoid using the wrong temperature fluid. Anyone know of an inert dye that I can add to the fluid that would not affect its performance? -----Original Message----- From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tony Ingano Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:14 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [LF] Vapor Phase Soldering I am wondering if anyone is currently using vapor phase soldering. What are the disadvantages of vp soldering? Also, who are the major manufacturers of VP soldering machines? Thanks, Tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to=2 [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To tempor arily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------