At 08:51 AM 9/26/2008, Mike Fenner wrote: >I think the problem for those guys is that position is everything so design >rules for such pragmatic considerations like 'can it be made' are not too >high profile in their minds. And the problem for manufacturing is that >rules/laws that ordinary people understand (Ohm's Law comes to mind for >example) are suspended in RF, so they are definitely able to be in high >priest mode when it comes to deciding right and wrong. Good gain over-rules >everything. > > >Regards > >Mike > > >-----Original Message----- >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge >Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:53 PM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice > >Ho-ho...shy and reserved. Well, maybe privately, but not in my profession. >Guess how much I have lifted this question, not only to the sales >department, but as high as to our company boss! The answer could be >typically ' Inge, you are a funny one' or 'speak to the design engineers' >or 'You are quite right, do something' . You are soooo right when you claim >that RF packages are handled differently. We have been visited by various >'saviours' who preach their messages to the staff, they swallow the bate and >buy the consult's package and this is spread from top to ground. Can have >different names. 'Concurrent engineering' or 'the golden waves' or >whatever. Last spread prophecy is named 'Lean'. The sad thing is, that >these academic products don't change people. After visiting the seances, had >free lunches and got a diploma, everything returns to square one. RF designs >and products remain 'mystic', 'superior to ordinary men' and 'belong to the >leading edge technology'. RF engineering got an aura and immunity that can't >be normalised. So, when the concept drops to the production, it's >anticipated that we fix it. Sigh!... >So...I have to solve a soldering problem, in which we have to solder >advanced hermetic RF connectors to a package that is not hermetic at all!! >Inge > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Eric CHRISTISON" <[log in to unmask]> >To: <[log in to unmask]> >Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:53 AM >Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice > > > > Well not really Richard but I was kind of expecting that answer. > > > > When my company designs new packages we have to design them to connect to > > a board or a flex or both and not only do we have to design them with that > > > intent but we then have to demonstrate, through carrying out all sorts of > > qualifications, that our customers can actually join them to > > boards/flexes/whatever in the manner we meant them to be attached. If we > > didn't do that then no one would buy our stuff. I think this is normal. > > > > Except when it comes to RF devices. > > > > I don't know what's different about them but in my experience most RF > > devices are badly designed in every aspect apart from (perhaps) their RF > > performance. It's as if the companies don't really care, perhaps because > > they're often single source devices and folk have got no option but to use > > > them. It's a shame because if folk keep buying badly designed devices > > other folk will keep selling them. > > > > Maybe Inge should be ringing up their technical sales department and > > shouting at them a lot, but I guess he's too shy and reserved to do that. > > > > Regards, > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Stadem, Richard D. wrote: > >>> Eric, > >>> You are just kidding, right? > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric CHRISTISON > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:35 AM > >>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>> Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice > >>> > >>> Inge, > >>> > >>> Don't the people who designed this thing have some idea how it should be > >>> soldered? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thayer, Wayne wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Inge! > >>>> > >>>> Nickel is pretty lossy, so you could possibly heat with electrical > >>>> energy. Still lots of current required--probably on the order of > >>>> 100A/mm of nickel. Nickel doesn't conduct heat real well either, so > >>>> you would want to drive the current pretty close to where the solder > >>>> needs to be melted. I'll bet a few days of playing with an arc welding > > >>>> power supply would get you a process. Or you could just use a > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> car battery and some jumper cables and see what happens! > >>>> > >>>> Problem I see with this technique might be package warpage due to > >>>> differential coeff of expansion and the local heat, similar to problems > > >>>> of using a torch, but the electrical would have much better > >>>> > >>> control. > >>> > >>>> Wayne Thayer > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hernefjord Ingemar > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:46 AM > >>>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>>> Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice > >>>> > >>>> Mike, > >>>> > >>>> THAT was new to me! Good start, I'd say, many thanks. Hope our machine > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> can manage 260 C. > >>>> > >>>> Inge > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Sewell > >>>> Sent: den 24 september 2008 16:33 > >>>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>>> Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice > >>>> > >>>> Inge, > >>>> > >>>> Galden makes fluids that go to 260C... > >>>> > >>>> http://www.solvaysolexis.com/static/wma/pdf/9/7/7/0/Galden%20VPS.pdf > >>>> > >>>> Mike > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hernefjord Ingemar > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:26 AM > >>>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>>> Subject: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice > >>>> > >>>> TNetters godday. > >>>> > >>>> Target is very large metal packages with bright nickel finish. Imagine > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> soldering hermetic feedtrues. Nickel needs higher temperature and > >>>> longer exposure time than copper, silver, gold and other metals. Vapour > > >>>> phase soldering is maximum 218 Centigrades, which I believe is not high > > >>>> enough. Iron soldering is not practical for launches. IR oven > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> could be an idea if we add protection gas. Hot gas stations > >>>> (Nitrogen)seem to be too lame. Resistance soldering not tested, unknown > > >>>> for SMA. Torch heard of, ought to be impractical, will burn flux and > >>>> miscolor package. Laser soldering not practised. > >>>> > >>>> Anyone out there with experience from this kind of soldering? > >>>> > >>>> Inge > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>>> Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To > >>>> unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt > >>>> or > >>>> (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > >>>> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing > >>>> per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > >>>> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > >>>> Search the archives of previous posts at: > >>>> http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > >>>> Please visit IPC web site > >>>> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional > >>>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > >>>> 847-615-7100 > >>>> ext.2815 > >>>> ----------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>>> Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To > >>>> unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt > >>>> or > >>>> (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET > >>>> Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the > >>>> posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the > >>>> archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for > > >>>> additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > >>>> 847-615-7100 ext.2815 > >>>> ----------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>>> Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To > >>>> unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt > >>>> or > >>>> (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET > >>>> Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the > >>>> posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the > >>>> archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for > > >>>> additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > >>>> 847-615-7100 ext.2815 > >>>> ----------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and > >>>> > >>> are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > >>> are addressed. 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