Carl, Ours are made by United Chemi-con. Their website is http://www.chemi-con.com/index.php Hope this helps. Leland -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carl Proescholdt Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 9:32 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Lead-free soldering of electrolytic caps Leland, Do tell -- would you please share your vendor? Thanks. Carl -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Leland Woodall Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:51 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Lead-free soldering of electrolytic caps Ioan, Have you performed any accelerated life testing on your bulging assemblies? This should tell the tale. We use lots of these electrolytics as well, but ours do not exhibit the concern you have. We also expose them to a lead-free reflow environment. Ours are made by a different vendor, and are designed for high temp applications... Leland -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ioan Tempea Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:09 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Lead-free soldering of electrolytic caps Well Carl, At leat I can say like Chef Inspector Clouseau: «now we're getting somewhere». That means I would need your input on manual soldering. Are they bulging when soldered like that? How do you guys go about it, solder paste and heat gun or iron and wire? How do you make sure the solder reflowed under the part? This particular design is not very generous with us either, no isothermals around the pads of the caps as they are connected to fairly large planes of Cu so they need some big heating. And lead-free on top of it... Thanks, Ioan -----Message d'origine----- De : Carl Proescholdt [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Envoyé : July 22, 2008 11:58 AM À : TechNet E-Mail Forum; Ioan Tempea Objet : RE: [TN] Lead-free soldering of electrolytic caps Ioan, I am anxious to hear of other's experience on this as we need a better approach here too. We have run these very same parts. Due to the mixture of high mass parts on our particular board, we were not able to get the reflow temps down enough to prevent the bulging and still reflow the lead free paste adequately. We tried Alpha's protective cap, but we still were not able to dial in the profile. Our customer determined that this bulge was directly related to eventual component failure. The end result was very painful to me -- we are now hand soldering them... Let's hope there are other ideas out there to help us along! Carl dca -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ioan Tempea Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:43 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Lead-free soldering of electrolytic caps Richard, The issue I am having is that they bulge at the top. Could not get any answer from Panasonic on whether bulging is bad or acceptable. One thing I can tell though is that we have to heat them really low in order to avoid the bulge, even in leaded processes. Thanks, Ioan -----Message d'origine----- De : Stadem, Richard D. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Envoyé : July 22, 2008 11:21 AM À : TechNet E-Mail Forum; Ioan Tempea Objet : RE: [TN] Lead-free soldering of electrolytic caps We reflowed thousands of these very same caps in different products in a previous life, and I don't recall any problems with them from an operating or reliability standpoint. But that was with a MRT of around 230 deg. C, and a TAL of about 60 seconds. The bigger problem with them was handling. Because the two leads coming out from the bottom of the can puts it on a center fulcrum, any operator who puts their fingers or thumbs on the top of these cans and rocks them even slightly when handling the assembly will cause the pads to lift right off of the board. We had to train and retrain the operators not to touch these parts. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ioan Tempea Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:45 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Lead-free soldering of electrolytic caps Dear Technos, I need to solder these babies, see http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/components/pdf/PIC_FK_SERIES.pdf on lead-free. We're on SAC305. Please check the last page of the spec, series EEV-Q and EEV-M, the big cans. I must say that Panasonic does not really help us assemblers by labelling the parts as being RoHS compliant; they might not have the banned stuff in them, but they are anything but high-temp. When designers see RoHS compliant, it's case closed for them and open issues for us. How are you guys getting around the poor temperature rating of the component? Would the cool caps work? Are you soldering them manually? Should I bother studying the Bi alloys? Thank you, Ioan --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------