This has been a problem for some time: "There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person's lawful prey. It is unwise to pay too much, but it is also unwise to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money, that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything because the thing you bought is incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot... It can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better." John Ruskin, 1819 - 1900 English Philosopher and Social Commentator regards Mike -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Westheimer Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:12 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] looking for ENiG photos What is the cost of quality? Even shops in China are board brokers. It is not uncommon for a shop to take an order and subcontract it to another shop. This actually happens more than you think. The shop that brokered the parts out will than receives the boards back and ships them onto their customer. Most of the time the shops that are actually making the boards are not given the fabrication drawing so that they can not go direct and try and steal the end customer.Scott B. Westheimer5709 Clarks Fork DriveRaleigh, NC [log in to unmask]: (919)713-0748Cell NC: (919)961-5364 > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:45:35 -0500> From: [log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN] looking for ENiG photos> To: [log in to unmask]> > We put a lot of money and effort into material and finish selections in the > RoHS chageover.> > We have strict specifications on our fabrication drawings.> > We have previously fully qualified 3 high volume and 2 prototype PCBs, and > maintain them in a world wide AVL.> > but purchasing sees pennies.............> > This is just a proposed vendor - only sample quantites assembled, we haven't > ordered anything yet (I hope).> > So far the proposed vendor has:> claimed to be a fabricator, but is actually a broker> fabricated at two shops, neither was included in the site visits or D&Bs> switched the laminate we approved (twice)> changed layer spacing> used some alien plating material> performed microsectioning and solder testing on a non-RoHS PCB, but shipped > a completely different (hopefully RoHS) panel> The other (passed) microsection showed innerlayer separation.> Shipped PCBs with soldermask on pads.> > Best scenario is that this finally wakes purchasing up to what I've been telling > them about buying boards in China. Worst case is - they buy these anyway.> > ---------------------------------------------------> Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet> To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815> ----------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_fam ily_safety_072008 --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- ***This email, its content, and any files transmitted with it, are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be legally privileged and/or confidential. 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