1). How about running some boards through the whole line without conformal coating, then add the conformal coating. 2). In the past I have used the Kepner-Tregoe method of problem solving and it starts with: when did the problem show up first, followed by: what changed around that moment in time (list every and any change). And then determine what impact any of those changes might have. Good luck, Ahne. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Leland Woodall Sent: Tuesday, 13 May, 2008 13:51 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question Richard, We've found only one instance where this was found prior to the conformal coating process. That unfortunately opened up an entirely new area of search. Thanks, Leland -----Original Message----- From: Stadem, Richard D. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:18 PM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Leland Woodall Subject: RE: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question Do you see it on the I.C.s prior to conformal coating? Or only after? I am wondering if you have a source of metal strands within the coating area, else in the conformal coat itself. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Leland Woodall Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 3:00 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question Paul, I just asked this question to our process guys. They're not certain about a couple of pieces of our equipment and are planning to provide me with an answer tomorrow. Is there some type of steel mesh filter on these things about which you speak that will allow material to drop onto the product, rather than being pulled through the system and deposited to an external location? Leland -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Edwards Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 3:20 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question Leland, Are your reflow and/or wave solder exhaust ducts attached a VOC thermal reduction unit? Paul -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Leland Woodall Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:06 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question Thanks for your response, Reuven. Here's the answers to your questions below... 1. Incoming material has been checked, all found to be OK 2. Boards barcoded and then re-bagged, stored, and subjected to board cleaning machine prior to population 3. Metal brushes used at ICT much heavier material 4. No lead cutting process in facility I appreciate your help in my search! Leland -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Reuven Rokah Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:43 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question 1. Are the Ics before assembly have such wire? 2. Are the PCBs assemblies stored near air filters or un controlled area? 3. May be metal hair brush is using for ICT contact cleaning etc. 4. May be through holes cutting leads process is used Best Regards Reuven ROKAH e mail: [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Leland Woodall Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:28 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question Jerry, Our boards see no cleaning cycle. We have, though, looked at our filters on our stencil and wave solder pallet cleaning machines, as well as those at our conformal coating process. No matches were found in any of the above. Either the material was completely different, or else much larger in diameter than what we're seeing. Thanks again, Leland -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jerry Dengler Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:14 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question Leland, Do you wash these boards prior to finding the strand? If so does the cleaner use a stainless steel wire mesh filter? Just another long shot. Jerry -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Burke Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 1:58 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question It is probably a magnetic grade of stainless if it is clinging to the leads, can you confirm this? John Burke (408) 515 4992 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Leland Woodall Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:06 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question David, We haven't seen any of this interfering with or preventing a solder joint from forming. In every instance, it's clinging to the leads. Wouldn't that pretty much rule out our reflow ovens? The earliest part of our process where this has been found is at in-circuit test after the wave solder operation. That leaves our Omron AOIs, our Huntron visioning stations, and our flying probe machines. We've looked in and all around those processes, and still are coming up with nothing. Like trying to find a (stainless steel) needle in a haystack... Leland -----Original Message----- From: David Greig [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:57 AM To: Leland Woodall Subject: RE: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question Are the fibres causing any problems with solder joint formation, if so then trace backwards from the oven. If not then look around the oven and forwards to the point at which they are observed. What about the air/nitrogen source into the oven? Any bit of kit that is opened and closed regularly. The gaskets are used likely on electronic or even electrics enclosures, particularly clam shell cases. The cut ends of the gaskets typically do fray out loose fibres. Best Regards David Greig -----Original Message----- From: Leland Woodall [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 13 May 2008 15:29 To: David Greig Subject: RE: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question David, Where in my manufacturing process might I find one of the knitted EMC gaskets? Are you familiar with any particular machinery that would use these? Thanks again, Leland -----Original Message----- From: David Greig [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:26 AM To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; Leland Woodall Subject: RE: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question Perhaps an EMC gasket. One of the knitted mesh materials commonly used consists of knitted stainless steel fabric. There may well be residues of silicones and other lubricates used in the knitting or weaving. Best Regards David Greig -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Leland Woodall Sent: 13 May 2008 14:47 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Stainless Steel Contamination Question Importance: High Hi Everyone, We've had a problem lately with fine strands of stainless steel wire being found on top of some of our .5 mm pitch ICs. This has caused both internal and external issues, and we've yet to identify the source. It's definitely formed wire, with a thickness ranging from 7 to 10 microns, and up to 3 mm in length. Our automated optical inspection stations can only reliably detect widths of 12 to 15 microns. I've checked the internet in an attempt to find common applications of this wire. I've found two, and they were for ultra-fine filters and stencil screen mesh. We've investigated (I think) all of our machinery that would utilize filters this small and have found no such usage. I've also checked every stencil in our plant, and all of our mesh material is some type of a plastic compound. Do you have any idea where this stainless steel might be coming from? Any suggestions would be sincerely appreciated! 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