Following Doug's lead.... As a contract manufacturer, my organization constantly gets asked the same question by some customers who don't have a clue and ask that we propose something to them. This of course is rather difficult because of the ever present "well it depends" on what you're making and what type of technology you have on the assembly. Presently, not much out there in terms of useful industry specifications. The ROSE requirements set fourth in J-std-001 are too stringent for some and too lax for others, depending on what you're building and the final device environment. Also you have the ever present issue of the ROSE taking a cleanliness "average" that could still leave you with more than enough ionics at a critical location to induce failure. While not perfect by any means, the Ion chromatography test method and limits set fourth by FORESITE labs seems to make the most sense to myself and internal company team. You can get that table off the their web-site or by contacting them there and requesting it. Rich Kraszewski / Kimball-GTS 847-621-7310 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas O. Pauls Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:48 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] specifying board cleanliness Well, then, we have a heffalump of a whole different color. See, when someone says "boards" to me, there are no components. When someone says "assemblies" they have components. So, then, is your basic question "What kinds of language do I put in my procurement documents, using IPC test methods, that give me clean assemblies coming from my contract manufacturer"? Doug Pauls Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> 01/03/2008 11:31 AM To "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> cc Subject RE: [TN] specifying board cleanliness Doug, I forgot in my original e-mail that I'm concerned with populated boards. So I'm guessing there is a different document for that. The tests are listed in IPC-TM-650, but my eye glass over when I try to decipher these. I know designing by thumb nail is a bad practice, but what is there for us who are practically laymen? Thanks, Phil From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:02 AM To: Phil Nutting Subject: Re: [TN] specifying board cleanliness And, here is the 5701 I referenced. Doug Pauls Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 01/03/2008 08:44 AM Please respond to TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> To [log in to unmask] cc Subject [TN] specifying board cleanliness Good Morning and Happy New Year to All, Let me start by confessing my ignorance relative to cleanliness of circuit boards. We have no idea what numbers to specify that fit into the IPC testing methods for board cleanliness. If I tell my CMs to make the boards clean, it would be good to specify a target value and or test method. Can someone give me some guidance on how to chose these specifications? What are worth while tests and which ones are window dressing? I've read through some of the IPC tests methods and my head hurts. Thanks in advance, Phil Nutting Note: All the information contained in this e-mail and its attachments is proprietary to Kaiser Systems, Inc. and it may not be reproduced without the prior written permission of sender. If you have received this email in error, please immediately return it to sender and delete the copy you received. --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- Note: All the information contained in this e-mail and its attachments is proprietary to Kaiser Systems, Inc. and it may not be reproduced without the prior written permission of sender. If you have received this email in error, please immediately return it to sender and delete the copy you received. --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------