But see, that's the point. You are not changing print requirements going from 55110D to 55110G2 any more than you would going from IPC-A-610A to IPC-A-610B. DSCC, the government, the military, etc. all support using the latest revision. As I noted in recent email, improvements in technology (materials, processes, equipment, knowledge, experience, etc.) dictate evolution of associated processes including drawings, documents, and specifications. Just as each of us would accept an IPC revision change into our system, the same would apply with MIL-(P)RF specifications. DSCC's position is, they prefer you use the latest revision (now it is 31032); however, if you choose to use legacy drawings, it shall be IAW with acquisition documents (i.e. an agreement between buyer and seller). It is pretty clear to me and I have never had DSCC take a second look at this approach, customers also (with 1 exception in 9 years). Ask yourself this, do you purchase laminates to MIL (13949) spec or IPC (4101) spec? What about solderability performance and acceptance, is this to MIL-STD-2000 or J-STD's? With 55110, it is cancelled for "new designs"; however, they keep revising it. If we were not be using the latest revision, why would they continue to update a cancelled document? Hmmm... Franklin D Asbell -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Hanna Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:42 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3 Agreed, but often the people creating the PO's don't have the authority to waive print requirements...most customers of a board shop are not print 'owners'. Some days you just need to build to an old print... -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Franklin D Asbell Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 10:21 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3 I agree 100%, the "acquisition document" (i.e. purchase order) is the driver to fabrication and testing. My point being a fabricator should work with the customer to specify in the agreed upon purchase order "product shall be fabricated and inspected to 55110G2 (or latest revision). Of course this would take cooperation from the fabricator and customer. There is still no magic involved in this. People make this way too difficult. If there is still confusion, call DSCC and ask for a verbal clarification. Doubt they would put that to pen, but they will state the above verbally. Franklin D Asbell -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Hanna Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:53 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3 Yet in that same amendment 1 is states; D.4.3.1 Group A testing. Group A testing should be performed to the specific revision, and amendment if applicable, called out by the acquisition documents. For example, if printed wiring boards are produced to MIL-P-55110D with amendment 1, MIL-P-55110D with amendment 3, and MIL-P-55110E, a manufacturer would be expected to perform group A testing, for the applicable lot, to the requirements of the revision specified. So yes, there is nothing sacred about 55110, except what it says... You would need to find the old specs to test to if they were called out on the master drawing. Even to meet the new and improved spec... -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Franklin D Asbell Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:12 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3 Read section 6.4.3 of MIL-PRF-55110. It states "6.4.3 References on master drawings. All the requirements of this specification can be interchangeable with those specifications identified as MIL-P-55110. Therefore, existing master drawings or OEM documents referencing MIL-P-55110 need not be revised, updated, or changed to make reference to MIL-PRF-55110 in order for this specification to be used." The problem with maintaining inspection processes which comply with every revision of 55110 is due to; 1) most users of 55110 are unaware of this allowance, 2) they fail to adequately communicate it to their customers. Revision changes are a fact of life, there is nothing sacred about 55110 making it immune from using the latest revision. Franklin D Asbell -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Hanna Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 7:34 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3 They are probably working from a 15 year-old print -- getting the authorization to change the print would be next to impossible...and the parts must meet print -- simple huh? -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of - bogert Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 4:40 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3 Why don't you ask your customer if you can work to the latest MIL-PRF-31032 which supersedes MIL-P-55110 and MIL-PRF-55110? >From: Paul P Greene <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Paul P >Greene <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3 >Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:13:26 -0500 > >Hi All, > I have a requirement to get the subject specification (including >the >correct amendment) as we have to certify to it for a customer. The product >is >old and to be compliant with the drawings we must certify to this. I have >tried >DSCC and all the associated specification search sites and cannot get back >to >RevD. I managed to get a copy of RevD with ammendment 4 but need it with >amendment 3. I searched the archives and found plenty of correspondance >but no details of availability. >Thanks >Paul > >--------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 >for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or >847-615-7100 ext.2815 >----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using 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