If you are looking at it from a supplier stand point, noting. You will find yourself retraining your staff to look for defects per the Class 2 or 3 requirements. From an end user you would expect to get a product that would be more reliable then the circuit boards in your kid's toys. I think I have that backwards? My 2 year old throws all his electronic toys around and they have yet to die and I know they are all Class 1 and My PS3's Ethernet port died with in a month, go figure. If any one has to do any drop testing, HAST or shock and vibe send it on over I will have it back to you in a week if it survives. Back to your question Circuitree had an article last month "It is time to end class discrimination" it's a good read http://www.circuitree.com/CDA/Articles/Column/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_1000000000 0000141586 Ted T -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rob Strecker Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 4:29 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Reliability of Class 1,2,3 Let me rephrase the question. What is the benefit of moving from a class 1 to 2 or class 2 to 3? Rob -----Original Message----- From: Guy Ramsey [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:58 AM To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; Rob Strecker Subject: RE: [TN] Reliability of Class 1,2,3 I don't think you are understanding the requirement. Do you have J-STD-001? SPC is required if you are not going to do 100% inspection. If you are doing SPC then your quality team and statistical process results will tell you what you need to do. A place you might look for help is the text, Statistical Process Control for Surface Mount Technology, by William S. Messina. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rob Strecker Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 12:05 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Reliability of Class 1,2,3 Kat, Actualy we are looking at ways to reduce inspection and still maintain a class 2. Does IPC have anything on method and frequency of inspection? We may do something similar to what you have done, develop an inspection matrix for our products to determine critical inspection points. I guess the question is if we were to eleminate inspections completely (we would still maintain 20% inspection end of oven, or some form of it) could we still say we work to class 2, when we only look at the boards if they fail test? How can we say we work to any class if we don't look at the boards? Rob -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathy Kuhlow Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 9:00 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Reliability of Class 1,2,3 Rob, I would think a class change to reduce inspection is the wrong approach since the class only has to do with acceptability criteria instead of method and frequency. Can you support reduced or implement inspection sampling plans? I have also been able to reduce inspection labor through critical and high risk feature identification so that labor is put towards those items needing more attention. Can you provide more detail on the inspections that you want to reduce? Kat -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rob Strecker Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 9:15 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Reliability of Class 1,2,3 I was wondering if there is any documentation out there stating the reliability of products built to IPC class 1 compared to class 2 or 3? We are a class 2 manufacture and are looking at reducing our inspections, however will this put us in the class 1 category by default if we only catch defects at functional test? What inspection must we do in order to maintain class 2? Thanks, Rob --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------