Totally agree. I was just trying to point out that there is definitely criteria available to identify a defect that can be described as insufficient, poor wetting, de-wetting, nonwetting, open, etc. The specifications do not mention "open solder connection" or other obvious defects that result from not meeting the criteria either. That does not mean that the term "insufficient solder" is not covered by the standard. My other fear is that someone who is not knowledgeable would assume that insufficient solder was not a defect covered by J-STD-001 or 610 if they read your note. All of these defects, no matter what you call them, disappear if the solder joint criteria as shown (and quantified) in the J-STD-001D and IPC-A-610D are met. If there are particular circumstances where the non-conforming condition or desired solder joint are not covered by the standards, then acceptance criteria should be defined in some type of in-house document (Corporate Workmanship Standards) that provide the desired acceptance criteria for the inspectors/operators. If an inspector is fully trained to judge solder joints by the criteria, he/she should be able to detect the non-conformance and flag it. It does not really matter what the inspector CALLS the defect, the important thing is that it does not meet the spec. Unless you have trained inspector(s) who function as "Da Judge", you end up with all kinds of different judgement calls amongst untrained and uncertified operators, and hence uncontrolled rework. Rework needs to be confined to only the defects that do not meet the criteria, and you need a good inspector/quality control/quality engineer to do that. Else there is no way to control excessive and unnecessary rework and touchup. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Glen Herzog Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 1:31 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Insufficient Solder Richard, I am certainly glad you didn't find the term "Insufficient Solder" in any of the citations that you offered. I'm also glad that you're only disturbed by the throw away line. I have seen people identify many of the defects that you pointed to plus dewetting, nonwetting, and minimum acceptable solder, as "insufficient solder." My real message was that you need to be very careful when putting an Inspector in charge of determining when product must be repaired and even worse, when product lines must stop. Besides I think that you could find each of those defects specified, while they might be caused by insufficient solder, might also be caused by something other than "insufficient solder." -----Original Message----- From: Stadem, Richard D. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 1:09 PM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Glen Herzog Subject: RE: [TN] Insufficient Solder Boy, oh, boy, I have to take exception with the statement: "Incidentally, I don't think that the term "Insufficient Solder" is in either standard. I think that it is just a general term that we often use without much definition." The minimum amount of solder forming a fillet around the unsupported and the plated-through-hole lead is clearly defined for each class in section 6.1 and 6.2. The minimum amount of solder hole-fill is defined for each class in section 6.3.2 in J-STD-001D The minimum heighth of the heel fillet for gullwing leads is clearly defined for each class. See section 7.6.7 and Table 7-7. The minimum endcap fillet for chip caps and resistors is clearly defined for each class. See Table 7.4 The minimum amount of LCC fill is clearly defined. See figure 7-6 and Table 7-6. The minimum amount of solder required for MELF terminations is clearly defined in Table 7-5. And so on and so forth... Anything not meeting the minimum is insufficient solder. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Glen Herzog Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:12 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Insufficient Solder Ron, Your question, "Does anyone here have a sure fire way to combat insufficient solder." apparently has two interpretations (1) how do I get sufficient solder and (2) What should my inspectors do when there is insufficient solder. I'll try to address the inspector issue. Normally, inspectors do not cause rework. They have criteria from J-STD-001 and ANSI/IPC-A-610. Based on that criteria they will determine if an assembly passes or fails the criteria. Unless that Inspector is quite experienced, a Quality Technician or Engineer, or a Process Engineer determines what action must be taken. Often "Insufficient Solder' is a process indicator. The process needs improved, but the board does not need to be reworked. Incidentally, I don't think that the term "Insufficient Solder" is in either standard. I think that it is just a general term that we often use without much definition. Good Luck, Ron --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------