I believe the intent is not to have the water draining from the surface for a minute, rather that the water stays in the thin film (placed horizontally) for 1 minute after the removal from the tank. If the water beads up (like on a waxed car) that indicates the contamination. This test is often called out for use on PCB surfaces prior to coating or even prior to bonding, but in a modified manner in that you can simply squirt a little DI water from a pipet onto the surface and see what happens - no dipping required. Hope that helps, Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Marsico, James [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:28 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Water-break Test I've been looking at ASTM F22-02, Standard test method for Hydrophobic Surface Films by Water-Break Test. The procedure is stated as follows: "Withdraw the test surface, in a vertical position, from the container overflowing with water." The interpretation of results states: "Surfaces tested ... shall be considered free of hydrophobic contaminants by this test method if the draining water layer remains as a thin continuous film over the surface for 1 min after withdrawal of the surface from the overflow container. If hydrophobic contaminants are present, as evidenced by a formation of a discontinuous water film within 1 min after withdrawal of the surface from the overflow container, the length of time necessary for the water-break to occur is a rough indication of the degree of contamination". Now, a couple of questions. How can you expect all surfaces, assuming that they are contamination free, to remain wet and draining for 1 minute after removal from a tank? Should this be 1 minute of continuous rinse? What if all of the water drains off before the minute is up, is that a failure? In my case, when removed from the water bath, the water remains a continuous film for 15 seconds, after that, no more water remains. Comments? Jim Marsico EDO Corporation 1250 New Horizons Blvd. North Amityville, NY 11701 631-630-5079 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 2:40 AM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Marsico, James Subject: Re: [TN] Water-break Test Before even trying to rely on the water break test, I suggest you may care to read the peer-reviewed paper I presented in Circuit World, Volume 35, Number 4, 2005. pp 47-50, entitled "The Water Break Test". This will explain that there are a number of fallacies involved, when relying on such empirical methods. The main one is that the test will succeed only on contaminated surfaces. Brian Marsico, James wrote: > Hello Technet: > > > > We have an application where we have to etch a PTFE PWB in preparation > for bonding. The etch is a commercially available sodium-containing > solution. We're also expected to meet a water-break test prior to > bonding. We're having trouble meeting the water-break test and was > wondering if the two (etched PWB and water-break) are compatible. If > so, what cleaning/rinsing could be performed after the etching to ensure > a water-break free surface? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Jim Marsico > > EDO Corporation > > Amityville: 631-630-5079 > > Bohemia: 631-218-7057 > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To > unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt > or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 > ----------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------