Both, in fact. Yep, the plater cooperates understandingly. Nota bene: if you bond on nailheads or any similar pins, you need keep an eye on the U/S frequency. The pins can swing with the horn, and that can cause poor adhesion. So, Trikeman, you begin to feel altitude excitement. I understand. I've seen young bird's whole body vibrate and suddenly they can't resist any longer, but jump from the bird nest and swing up in the sky, anxiously but triumphing. Go, Trikeman, fly with the eagles! But don't drop things on my head. (I don't know how much bird you become up there) Inge ----- Original Message ----- From: "Creswick, Steven" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [TN] Gold Ball Bond attaching surface roughness Okay Ingemar, Are you putting the ball on the [nail head?] pin, or the wedge? I bet your plating/plater has a lot to do with your success :-) Sometimes you crack me up! I need the weather to calm down so I can go flying. Starting to grow roots have been on the ground so long. Finally loosing enough snow that I might be able to get out on the field. Steve -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:18 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Gold Ball Bond attaching surface roughness Copper Cup...when is that? Sorry, I know you are not to play with until on Friday. Even if the surface you are looking at may seem rough in a macro-looking perspective, the micro ditto may serve well for the ball or wedge. Hence, we do bonding on rough glass feed-true pins, which are absolutely not thought for bonding, but it works fine. Try! And do pull test! Inge ----- Original Message ----- From: <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]>; <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:48 PM Subject: RE: [TN] Gold Ball Bond attaching surface roughness The application I am referring to is a device where the ball bond, BCC, is placed on a copper cup which also serves as the solder fillet to the PWB pad. This cup is really rough exhibiting tooth like structure similar to those of the vendor treated side on copper foil. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:23 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Gold Ball Bond attaching surface roughness Agree with Trikeman, the semi process is a epitaxial process using "refractory" metal, and the asperity is not measureable on normal tallysurfers, i.e. <0.1 um. Only situation may be with semi chips with plated bond pads, but then we talk gold. And these have never caused us any problems either. You needn't bother. /Inge ----- Original Message ----- From: "Creswick, Steven" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [TN] Gold Ball Bond attaching surface roughness Victor, Sorry, don't have a number to give you. We do it all day long ... and the IC mfr's know how to make the bond pads.... Typically smoother is better, but if one were to look at the plating on a lead frame at high enough magnification, it is certainly not smooth either. Possibly someone has some form of spec on the surface finish of a bond pad. All that I am aware of is pad thickness. If no one has a surface finish number, I might be able to run some next week. Steve C -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Victor G. Hernandez Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 8:25 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Gold Ball Bond attaching surface roughness Fellow TechNetters: Typically I have observed ball bond attached the alunium window of a chip, and copper lead frame. Are there any criteria for the roughness of this surface for establishing a good intermetallic formation? Victor, ----------------------------------------------------- THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE AND ANY ATTACHMENTS SENT FROM GENTEX CORPORATION IS GENTEX CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY NAMED ABOVE. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. 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