Again off subject---- For new sources consider photos prior to shipments and escrow accounts------ allowing time for visual inspection. No guaranteed safeguard but both tend to filter out the blatant con artist. Bernie . Ben Kim ---- You may be slightly --- slightly --- off-subject but remarkably on-target. It's a daily battle to guard against the rogues in this business and keep clients on schedule. This general subject would have been a natural for the old Round Table meetings ---- where anything and everything of legitimate concern to any one segment of the PCB industry was fair game for discussion. Bernie Kessler At 04:02 PM 10/19/2006, Ben Kim wrote: >Rich, > >Counterfeit parts are definitely a growing problem. But if you only rely >on factory delivery, you are still left with a line down problem. > >There are many scoundrels selling counterfeit parts in the gray market and >it hurts all of us as a whole, but there are also many more reliable >distributors that do deliver as promised on a daily basis. I know many >independent distributors who run very clean operations by supplying stock >from reliable OEMs/CEMs and a set of established trading partners. > >But when a part can only be sourced from a questionable supplier with a >reputation for selling counterfeit/substandard parts, a good distributor >should inform your buyer of the situation and recommend against the >purchase. If you are so desperate that you decide to proceed anyway, there >are still many steps that can be taken to prevent counterfeit parts from >getting anywhere near your boards, such as rigorous vendor screening, >visual inspection, and various levels of electrical or functional component >testing. > >But you need to work with a distributor that is open, direct, and honest >with you. If they're only looking to make a quick buck and make promises >they cannot deliver, then I guess you might end up with an expensive set of >scrap boards. > >In my opinion, the key to sourcing components is in the processes you >setup, same as in production. If you have bad processes in place or do not >practice and improve upon them diligently, your problems will build up and >bite your behind. > >I know this wasn't the main point of your discussion so my apologies if I'm >off topic, but I just wanted to share my experience from a supplier's >perspective in case it may be helpful down the road. > >Best regards, > >Ben Kim >[log in to unmask] > > >====================== >On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:17:55 -0400, Rich Wolbert <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > >Wayne, > > > >...Sorry to hear you had the same experience with the counterfeit parts. It > >seems like you have to buy direct from the factory to get the correct >parts. > > > >Rich > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Wayne Thayer" <[log in to unmask]> > >To: <[log in to unmask]> > >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 9:59 AM > >Subject: Re: [TN] Oxidized PCBs > >> > >> ...We've been nailed by counterfeit parts too, so I feel your pain! > >> > >> Wayne Thayer > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rich Wolbert > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:32 AM > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: [TN] Oxidized PCBs > >> > >> OK, I know you guys are probably going to shake your head on this one, > >> but I have to ask. We have a double sided fine pitch SMT assembly and > >> we > >> decided to go to white tin for the pad material. Here's where the > >> problem comes in, we ran one side and when we started process the > >> other > >> side we found counterfeit chips. We stopped production for two weeks > >> until the correct parts came in. When we tried to run the boards > >> again, > >> the PCB's oxidized so badly over the two weeks that we can not get the > >> solder to wet. Any suggestions, other than scrapping the 170 > >> assemblies > >> at $600 a piece? > >> > >--------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives >Please visit IPC web site >http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or >847-615-7100 ext.2815 >----------------------------------------------------- Bernard Kessler & Associates, Ltd 562-495-3221 Fax: 562-495-3228 "Service is our profession" http://home.earthlink.net/~bkesslerbka --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------