Ingemar, Danke Schoen! Richard -----Original Message----- From: Hfjord [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 1:12 PM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Stadem, Richard D. Subject: Re: [TN] Delamination Agree. E.g. our Signal&Data Processor boards for aircrafts and satellites take an immense time to make according to fulfilling a lot of requirements. The PbCO3 problem that I've announced for help, is about such expensive boards. It's not unusual that components on these boards cost 1,000 USD each, or even more. If the failure is within accepted repair conditions, we do repair and MRB them. Such boards may pass the loop both two or three times before they meet the conformance requirements. We inspect each incoming board, the supplier performs cleanliness tests on coupons regularly and we visit the supplier repeatedly, but despite that, small delaminations or other failures can occur. What do you do with hundreds of such boards when you find such a minor failure? You can't scrap boards for millions of dollars. Making mobile phone boards or electronics for the toy industry is of course an other situation. But you don't seem to belong to that category. Inge ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stadem, Richard D." <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [TN] Delamination Wrong, Franklin. Nearly all medical, industrial, aerospace, military, and government agencies recognize that qualified repair processes, including for delamination, are perfectly reliable, in most cases even more reliable than the original undamaged hardware. There is no more risk in performing a certified repair procedure than there is in doing standard rework. That is the reason MRB boards exist in large military OEMs and CEMs such as Honeywell, Rockwell, GD, etc., etc., with documented, qualified, and certified repair procedures, non-conforming material segregation and handling methods, trained and certified operators and inspectors, traceability systems, and quality departments. Many of these companies recognize the incidential value in these systems, including the impact of not having to delay a program, re-order new parts, re-inspect new parts and boards, re-stock replacement parts and boards, re-assemble replacement assemblies, re-test, etc, etc. Simply scrapping a board because it is delaminated may be acceptable for your product, but many programs cannot afford to scrap a single bare pwb valued at $50,000 for example, let alone a finished assembly valued at more than $500,000 because it has a delamination or other repairable defect. And yes, pwbs and assemblies with those values are becoming somewhat common in the industry today, what with the rapidly escalating level of technology. And in most cases, by the time you add up the cost of all of the above replacement activity, the real hidden cost of scrap becomes a factor in even the least costly commercial, high-volume products. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Franklin D Asbell Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:23 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Delamination I'm curious what customers would actually accept repaired delaminated product. I read repair procedures for delaminated conditions many years ago and in my opinion the end result presents many reliability possibilities. When I see delamination, I see scrap. Franklin -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D. Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:22 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Delamination Helena, I forgot to mention that many delaminations are quite repairable. There are repair procedures outlined in IPC-STD-7711/7721. They are not automatic scrap. This requires MRB authority from your customer, however. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pasquito, Helena Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:45 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Delamination Hi TechNetters, Let me ask a question; I know delamination is bad, but why? What is the failure mode to the board when a board delaminates and would there ever be an instance that a board that delaminates is still OK to use? This is a Class 3 application. Yes, I know what the IPC standards say but not real sure about the board process. Yes, I "googled" and there is a lot of stuff out there. Maybe someone can recommend some reading material (hopefully short and sweet and to the point). Thanks! Helena Helena Pasquito Manufacturing Skills Instructor M/A-COM, Tyco Electronics 1011 Pawtucket Blvd., M/S 107 Lowell, MA 01853 978-442-5024 [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------