Tom, Ramon, Good replies, but I think a couple of things you mentioned may need clarification. I believe when you mention "several rows of bars that are square" that you are referring to a 2D symbol, specifically a data matrix symbol (there are sever others). The data matrix (for example an ECC200 data matrix) takes up less real estate on a board/assembly than a barcode, holds more data and has error correction capability built in. In my reply, I am assuming you want to use a "system" to track the sub-components traced, rather then label that information on a top level, which you can do using 2D if you don't have a lot of sub-assemblies. You didn't mention if you are making a PCB, but if you are, one option is to laser etch the symbol (which works on sub-assemblies as well) We use laser-etch systems from Control Micro Systems to etch 2D data matrix serial numbers on all our boards, and some sub-assemblies. The cost is less per unit than labels (a lot less than kapton), but there is a higher up-font capital purchase for the laser. There are 2D and 1D symbol verifiers and no matter what kind of symbol you place (1D, 2D, etc), you should sample some assemblies and verify that the symbols are readable using a verifier. With 2D, most conveyor mounted readers can tell you what % of the ECC code you are using and also list other parameters to verify the quality of the etch/label. We use verification in our lasers, so the board/sub-assembly never leaves the laser if the etched symbol can not be read. As I mentioned, a data matrix symbol can also be applied via label. One downside to 2D is the readers can be more expensive than a 1D barcode scanner. For example, a read-on-the fly conveyor mounted scanner, can run about $3K. One you have the product ID (serial number, etc) of the board/sub-assembly, you have to "marry" it with all the lot numbers/part numbers of your sub assemblies. If one of the things you have to trace are the lots of the components on your PCB, you can do this via tracking the reels (on automation equipment). There are systems that do this, they are generally referred to as feeder-verification systems (to ensure you have the correct reel in the correct slot) and several companies make them. We use a solution called Bartector. All of these solutions can also do traceability as well. Some automation vendors, such as Siemens, offer these solutions as options. Once you go down this path, you have to be careful that your vendors apply a bar code with the information you require on each reel they supply (at times there are many labels, so you need to train the operators to find the "right" one"). You also have to specify to your suppliers, they can't mix lots on a reel and if you splice reels, you need to ensure that operators always scan in the new reel when they splice. You can use a splice-detector to know when you are using the "new" reel. The "best" feeder verification/traceability solutions are closed-loop and "talk" to the automation equipment (when you scan in a reel with 10,000 parts and you place your 11,000th part. you know the operator didn't scan in the new reel, etc). These systems also track mis-picks and can inform an operator that a reel is about to run out, etc. I hope this helps, if you need more information, you can contact me. Regards, Chris ________________________________ From: TechNet on behalf of Dehoyos, Ramon Sent: Mon 6/19/2006 8:07 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Bar code systems Hi Tom: Bar-coding is the simplest way to keep track of items. UID is a more problematic way to label items but it can store more info. UID is a form of bar-coding but the bars are small like squares and there are several rows of them which have to be almost perfect. It requires a label maker, a verifier and a reader. In the case of bar-coding the verifier is not necessary. There is another one called RFID. It would be difficult to attach to a board and much more expensive, but it can keep a lot more information. Regards, Ramon -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Moore Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 5:28 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Bar code systems We have a customer who is going to require lot code traceability on his assemblies. While my company has done this before through Excel files, this assembly is substantially more complex and will be built in much larger quantities than we have had in the past. Looking for suggestions for automatic data entry. Among my questions: Are there systems other than bar coding? (thinking outside the bar code box) How receptive are distributors to using bar codes? Is there a standard format that should be used? What systems are available that would feed this information into an Excel spreadsheet? Could the same system be used to identify when these parts are used (tied into a board S/N spreadsheet)? This is for a medical device manufacturer so I would prefer a system that would meet ISO 13485. Thanks for your continuing help. --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------