Jeffrey Any recommended sources for vacuum indicators and the sulfur free paper WITH antioxidant? BTW- you are correct about dessicant being a waste of time and probably deleterious to the effective vacuum seal. Gerry From: Jeffrey Bush <[log in to unmask]> Reply-To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Jeffrey Bush <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Packaging requirements for IAg Finished PWBs Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 11:47:52 -0400 Desiccating a vacuum package is not needed but I would recommend an indicator to ensure the vacuum has not been breached. Using desiccants should also be of the type with a tyvek package that will not leach into the inner bag onto the PCB's. Jeffrey Bush Director, Quality Assurance and Technical Support VERMONT CIRCUITS INCORPORATED 76 Technology Drive - POB 1890 Brattleboro, Vermont 05302 Voice - 802.257.4571 ext 21 Fax - 802.257.0011 <http://www.vtcircuits.com/> -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Franklin D Asbell Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:59 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Packaging requirements for IAg Finished PWBs I'm not making any recommendations, just stating our method. Many desiccant packs contain sulfur either in the media or paper, you want to keep sulfur of any type away from any solderable finish, especially silver. Vacuum sealing is good if product is going to remain on a shelf for a length of time. In today's busy facilities product is typically purchased when needed and used immediately. If the product being packaged is contaminate free, handled and packaged properly, and, not subjected to any harsh environment prior to use then in my opinion vacuum packaging is not necessary. That packaging method is best agreed upon between the buyer and seller. I have no opinion on the (in)effectiveness of a dessicant pack in a vacuum sealed package, I have seen and heard information both pro and con. It is something that should be agreed upon depending upon how long product will remain in stock, environment, etc etc. Franklin -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kane, Amol (349) Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:42 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Packaging requirements for IAg Finished PWBs Hi, Why do you recommend no desiccant? Also, are there any distinct pros and cons of Vacuum Sealing the boards vs. putting them in a plastic bag with proper paper between the board and a desiccant pack? I was of the opinion that putting a desiccant pack and then vacuum sealing does not make sense as there is very little air inside the package, and due to the vacuum, any moisture would never reach the desiccant pack anyways! Is there a specific reason board manufacturers package their boards this way?? Regards, Amol Kane M.S (Industrial Eng.) Process Engineer Harvard Custom Manufacturing 941 Route 38 Owego, NY 13827 Phone: (607) 687-7669 x349 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Franklin D Asbell Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:00 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Packaging requirements for IAg Finished PWBs Yes, we use a neutral pH paper, almost like tissue paper and fold 10 bds max into bundles, then package these in neutral pH plastic bags. Scratches are not so much this issue, it's more of abrasion prevention as well as protection from the environment. We have customer's however that once the product is received they completely remove the product from the packaging and place them open in bins until use. As a practice we pass along assembly and handling guidelines to all customers who request silver finish for the first time, and with new customers order silver finish product. Silver finish reacts to atmosphere more dramatic than tin-lead, the tin-lead finish is also more durable and less affected by handling, contaminates, etc so more controlled measures must be taken with silver finish. Also, it is best to perform the silver finish process as close to the end of the fabrication process as possible. We typically perform this process after rout and final inspection. Silver finish is applied, tape testing and visual inspection is performed and the product is immediately packaged. The following is an excerpt from such a procedure. ============== 5.0 Handling, packaging, and storage 5.1 It is recommended that gloves be used for all handling after the immersion silver process. 5.2 Salts and acids from fingerprints may tarnish the silver finish. 5.3 Surfactants and/or acid cleaners should not be used on silver finish boards. Clean only with DI water rinses. 5.4 Silver plated boards should be packaged as soon as possible to avoid exposure to sulfides and chlorides in the air. 5.5 Bundle wrap silver parts in clean acid/sulfur free paper. Neutral pH paper is sufficient. 5.6 Storage should be in sealed neutral pH plastic bags to eliminate direct contact with the air. 5.7 Do not allow sulfur bearing plastic to contact the silver finish. 5.8 Do not use desiccant in the packages with silver plated boards. 5.9 Do not use rubber bands on boards. Most rubber bands contain Sulfur compounds. ============== Franklin -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gary Camac Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:47 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Packaging requirements for IAg Finished PWBs Good morning all, I am struggling through a rewrite of our material specification for PWBs. I have seen the recommendation that cover sheets and interleaf sheets should be used to prevent scratches on IAg finished PWBs. Have those that are using IAg seen this as necessary? We eliminated this requirement on Sn/Pb finished PWBs some time ago without any negative effects. Thanks, Gary Camac --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------