Ramon et al, Please don't get me wrong... I am 100% totally behind the Push Back effort and will do everything I can to help make it happen. I was simply counseling against relying solely on U.S. produced documentation to back up our arguments. I see that John has already had an input from the E.U. on his website. That is an excellent start for getting a review of this entire fiasco on both sides of the Atlantic (and hopefully ultimately the Pacific as well). The more back up data that can be documented to prove that this new process is an incredible waste of natural resources, the better our argument. There is one segment here that you had better appeal to, though... The "green" folks. You can make every scholarly argument known to man to convince politicians and scientists that this is the wrong direction to go, but you need the groundswell of the common man behind you as well. So far, they only know that drinking water from lead pipes (or with leaded solders) is bad for you. Lead-based paint is also bad for you (if you eat it). It's only a short leap of faith into the "lead in the ground is bad for you, too" argument, especially if it's backed up with junk science and used as a political platform to divide people. Unless/until there is a turn in the common thinking about this, it will remain a "sour grapes" issue for those outside the industry. So how do we crack that nut? I am open for any/all ideas in that arena... But, it does have to happen. Dale Ritzen Quality Manager Austin Manufacturing Services -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Dehoyos, Ramon Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 9:46 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] NTC Get the Lead Out Hi Dale: There is nothing to loose and a lot to gain by trying what John proposes. Documentation to back the reason for an exemption can be from America only or America and other countries as well. Can you imagine the benefits from stopping this ROHS? I am in. Regards, Ramon -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dale Ritzen Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:22 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] NTC Get the Lead Out Unfortunately John, Documentation from and by the U.S. Government is not given much weight in European matters. I think it comes from too many years of living in the shadow of the U.S. You would be better served if some governmental agency in one of the E.U. member countries published something of this nature that could be used to push this agenda. A university professor, business or government publication originating in the E.U. would help. How about it folks... Can some of our European cousins come up with documented evidence of this kind that could lend some credibility in European circles to the "push back" effort? If so, combine that with the EPA document and you might gain some weight in your arguments to "the Commission"... Not trying to be a spoil sport, but using U.S. documentation in the European arena is a losing battle... for many reasons. Dale Ritzen Quality Manager Austin Manufacturing Services -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John Burke Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:06 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] NTC Get the Lead Out Thanks Ahne.............Game ON................. I for one would love to take a co-operative of industry through the exemption application process using the EPA report as ammunition to state that lead free solder has a negative environmental impact. Anyone else up for the challenge? If there is anyone on here from Microsoft, I would think they might welcome the opportunity to "Pushback" on some European matters..............8-) Ping me through the site or on reply e-mail, anyone who is interested. I will update the site pages to include this data this weekend. http://www.rohsusa.com/ John Burke -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ahne Oosterhof Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:37 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] NTC Get the Lead Out >From the European Union website: http://www.europarl.eu.int/registre/recherche/NoticeDetaillee.cfm?docid= 1608 39&doclang=EN E-3488/05EN Answer given by Mr Dimas on behalf of the Commission (11.11.2005) The objective of the measures identified in the Honourable Member's question is to substitute harmful substances for humans and the environment with suitable replacements where these exist. The Commission is aware that the substitution of lead in electrical and electronic equipment may have led companies to invest in new technologies with greater energy use. However, if companies can prove that the elimination or substitution of the banned substances via design changes or the use of alternative materials and components causes negative environmental, health and or consumer safety impacts, and that these outweigh the environmental benefits of ceasing to use the banned substances, an exemption can be granted. So far, only one company has asked for an exemption on these grounds. All the other exemption requests are based on either the lack of suitable substitutes or for cost reasons, which cannot be considered under the RoHS Directive . =========== This seems to say that if the alternative to lead is much more costly, too bad. BUT: if the alternative can be shown to be detrimental to the environment and/or consumer safety, it is possible to get an exemption. Looks like based on what I read one can prove both sets of problems. So how come only one company has gone for that kind of exemption? How about getting an exemption for the US electronic assembly industry? (You have done a great job of getting a lot of information together in a single place.) Have fun, Ahne. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Burke Sent: Friday, 28 April, 2006 11:10 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] NTC Get the Lead Out Wow I guess I really did say that huh....................... John -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stephen Pierce Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:46 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] NTC Get the Lead Out http://www.worldmag.com/articles/11798 --------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------